Short naps

[babybarr]

Now I don't actually have a problem at this early on if they short nap BUT I have a problem with the fact because they have short napped they will then cry non stop.  I really struggle to settle them and know it's cos they are tired.  Then come the next feed (because on 3hrs there isn't time to put in another nap - or that's what I'm finding anyway) they are drowsy during the feed and it takes *forever*

Not sure what to do...

Also they respond to no form of apop - rocking, ssshing, patting, swing, plus they've stopped taking the dummy I'm at a loss - especially when you have two screaming.

All help welcome! 

[Emami]

Wow Laura, sorry I'm just bumping for you as I really don't know what to suggest  . I would say APOP at this point to get some down time for all of you, but if nothing works I'm stuck!  The only thing I can think of is shortening their A time if they're taking a while to settle and you think they're already tired.  How long are you aiming for at the moment?

[babybarr]

ok so this morning J had woken early (or not settled after last feed very well) and took a long nap of about 1.5hrs (I woke him) he went down after getting fussy and "yelling" it was about 1hr 20mins H went down just after - about 15mins later.  H woke after half hour - he dozed then on me.  they had their feed and I watchedfor sleepy cues - basically they were happy as until 1hr 40mins at which point the both started fussing.  tried to get H down first but no luck (should have known as this is normal.  Put J down - striaght to sleep he woke after 20mins - happy but then crying later as still tired.  H slept 40mins woke crying desperately trying to go back to sleep.  Sort of managed to get a bit of extra sleep in thm but now well over the 3hr feed time....

I'm guessing they're not going down soon enough but when I've tried putting them down early i.e. the first / second yawn - if I catch one, then don't fall asleep quickly and just fuss until they start crying and then of course I have two to try and resettlle.  both will fall asleep if v tired easily on me but not v practical.  both will also eventually settle if i force a dummy in them

I know it's not done but I wonder if they need to head to a 4hr easy - they're bottle fed and I find unless they're really hungry they take forever to feed and don't always finish it wdyt or is that a silly idea?  ds1 was only ever fed 4hrly as i didn't know about bw until he was 4mths and that's what the tin  of forumla said!!!

[Emami]

My DD was eating 4hrly very young as well otherwise she just snacked all day.  I couldn't get into a good routine at all before we did the 4hr EASY.  It might be worth a try, as long as they can space it that far and take a good amount obviously.  Hopefully if they eat more efficiently and are full it won't be a rush to try to get through the bottle and get them down, and if they short nap there's a bigger chunk of A to try to get them back down without worrying about the E.

Sorry I wish I could help more wrt settling them but I just have no idea how you would even do that with two without APOPing  . All I can say is I salute mamas of multiples!

[babybarr]

I just feel perhaps with 4hrs to play with I stand half a chance of getting 2 short naps in. Plus they're gaining loads of weight so I'm sure they don't need the extra calories. They're ff. What sort of a time should I be realistically lookin at? And what do I do to get them to go down? With ds1 I'd plonk him in cot he'd look around or make a rhythmic noise then go off. These two just won't go off on their own perhaps it's cos I'm leaving it too late and am worried about having two crying babies?

Thanks for your help.

[Emami]

They're really really little to be going off on their own still, but do you do anything to signal to them that it's nap time?  My DD was an independent sleeper from very young, but not if I just put her in the cot, she would just lay there and eventually get OT and cry.  I've always darkened the room (not pitch black but so it's an obvious difference) and used white noise and she would go off on her own that way.  Also a bit of rocking (in her bed not my arms) helped when she was tiny - I know you say yours don't respond to APOP but maybe try to persist with the dummy if it's been helping them.

For A times I think 1hr 40 might be a bit long unless they are LSN.  I think I would try pulling it back around 1hr20.  I think at that age it was basically still feed, burp, nappy, bed for us.  It was more like 3 months before she really woke up and had some actual A time, but mine is fairly HSN though.

[babybarr]

They're really really little to be going off on their own still, but do you do anything to signal to them that it's nap time?

When I put them down in their room it is dark and has white noise, they will (if very tired) literally fall asleep on me as I carry them in, but if not very tired it takes ages.

The big issue I have is I simply don't have time to spend the best part of an hour in every 3 trying to get them to sleep yk?  In the morning I have my 5yr old to sort out for school and the same for the 3pm ish nap - it's school run and then trying to get them to have a (reasonable) catnap at teatime is also near impossible.  I feel like we're off to a bad start before we[ve started iyswim?!  Watching them today I think (and we've been at ils so they slept in car on the way up, after their feed and in car on way home but were still *really* OT and cranky come the evening) their A time is perhaps nearer an hour... which is really pushing it to get them both fed, burped and settled.  IDK!  I keep hoping that if I put them in the swing with their dummy that they'll get used to sleeping there a bit - just for the catnap and the am nap but it's not working.  I'm starting to wonder if their reflux is more at play than I thought

[Layla]

Hi Laura, my LO wouldn't have been awake for any more than an hour at that age and she needed a nap (mind you, it was only a short nap since we didn't start getting good naps until 3 months or so). Back then, Jennifer would sleep in the car on the way to school and I'd stay in the car when I'd get back home to let her have the nap and on the way home from school it was the same sort of thing. In the evenings (once the girls were at school), I used to carry her around in a baby carrier/sling and she'd nap on me as I too didn't have time to stand over the cot and get her to sleep. Would that work for you? Carry one in a sling and perhaps push the other one in a pram (something I did quiet a lot of) or get your 5yo to push the pram (the girls loved doing this as it was their way of helping mummy out). They might be finding it hard to settle (even with a dummy and in the swing) because they have already missed their "sleep window" and its harder for them to relax and go to sleep.

We pretty much fed and slept around the clock too at that age. Sometime around 3 months, I started stretching her A's and it got a little bit easier to do things other than just feed, change nappy and sleep!

[babybarr]

Ok so a bit of watching like a hawk from me this morning!  After they'd been up about 40mins J was whinging (they hadn't been fed cos they fed about 2hrs prior and have to have meds first on an empty stomach) I assumed it was cos he was hungry but gave him the dummy and I noticed his little eyes starting to close, I then popped him on his side in the swing (I seem to have more luck getting them to sleep that way) and watched H - when he started whinging (not long after) I gave him the dummy and did the same.  Lo and behold J fell asleep!  H needed plugging and eyes covering but he is more spirited J slept just over an hour and H maybe 40/45mins - I lose track.

Fed them, cleaned them and then after about 1hr 5mins J started moaning (I should say that J also dosed during his feed) so I took him upstairs but he just seemed so wide awake, laid him down and went and popped H in the swing, went back to J as he wasn't settling - gave him cuddle and thought I'll give you a bit longer and he (eventually) fell asleep.  Put him down and went to find H - he also was asleep in the swing!!  I thought I'd transfer him to the cot but I should learn really that he isn't tranferrable, put him down he stayed asleep until he was sick then brought him down and popped him back in swing - he matra cried (which I don't normally allow in case he disturbs J) and he fell asleep after about 2mins and there he stayed - I covered it over so he couldn't see out.  Anyway J had about 1hr 15mins and H had 20mins and then kept crying out.  So I feel like I at least made a little progress and perhaps if I catch them soon enough they make take to sleeping in the swing.  I have also decided they need to be separate for naps perhaps I'll use DS1 bed. 

Question though... what to do when they don't sleep long enough to next feed but isn't enough time for another nap and I can't get them to extend wwyd?

eta - thanks for reading my long account of the napping of my boys!!   Sometimes it's just nice to share minor achievements!

[Layla]

Great update Laura, sounds like they just needed a little less A time !

With regards to short naps - I used to try and resettle for up to 20mins but most of the time that didn't work and I would just pick mine up and give her a little more A before E was due. If she was showing tired signs and E was due at around the same time (or close to), I would give her a feed (and try my best not to let her fall asleep on the breast - lots of tickling toes) and then straight to bed. If I could squeeze in another nap before E was due, I would try but at that age (2 months), I was still feeding on demand, which was somewhere around 2hrs. I am not sure what the right thing to do with a baby who has reflux though 

[Emami]

^^Same.  Half an hour was my limit to try resettling but there were plenty of times that looked like EASAES or EASAS.  Short naps are a pain!  DD did also occasionally fall asleep eating at that age but I didn't stress about it for every once in a while