am I missing something? is this a routine issue?

[Florena49]

We have a number of sleep issues( but who doesnt i suppose?) LO is 16 weeks and our BT is pretty bad in a sense that he will always wake after 45 mins! Then he needs resettling, sometimes i can do it with shush pat in the cot other times he needs rocking.  He also takes a long time to fall asleep at bedtime, i can see he is tired but even with patting he cant seem to drop off and when he does he is very restless. We have loads of NW as well, i forgot how it feels to sleep for longer than 3 hours at a time. I have tried a later bedtime an earlier bedtime, the rest is always the same he wakes after 45 mins and then just lies in his cot sucking on his hands, the same thing starts after 5am as well I have to settle him every 40 mins or so! He cant seem to transition.  This has been going ob for a while so im not sure I can just ride it out, is there a solution?
As im typing this he is happily lying in his cot sucking on his hands fussing a little but not nearly enough for me to actually do anything.

our EASy for the past few days:

7.30Wu eat
9.10sleep-10.00
11.00 eat
11.35sleep-2.35 in the pram
2.35 eat
4.05-6.05 woke after 45 mins rest of nap on me
6.30 eat
8.10 sleep-8.40 always takes a long time to fall asleep
10 eat
12.30wu no food
1.40 eat
5.10 eat
6.35wu no food

 This was yesterday
7.50 wu eat
9.25sleep10.05 rest on me until 11.40
11.50 eat
1.10sleep-3.20 in the pram
3.25 eat
5.00-6.40 resettled after 45 mins
7 bath
7.15 eat
9.00sleep-9.30
9.50-00.00
00.00 eat
2.30 wu no food
4.10 eat
6.15 wu no food resettled until 7.30

TIA

[creations]

Hi.
Has LO ever transitioned a nap on his own? Is he an independent sleeper (can he go to sleep on his own) or do you need to always help him to get to sleep?

[Florena49]

Hi, on a few ocassions but there was no pattern whatsoever, we have a dummy and i wonder if that is a problem, im planning to get rid of it to seeif that makes any difference at all.  For the morning nap i just wrap him put him into his cot and he pretty much falls asleep immediately ob his own, as the day progresses he needs more help with naps. So for bedtime i end up patting him until he is literally asleep, can the patting becone a prop as well?

[creations]

OK sounds like morning nap is independent, or nearly, then.  In that case I would try two things (focusing on that first nap, getting a decent first nap can really help the day even if you go off track on the other naps)
- increase A time a little, 15 mins may do it
Average A times- BOOKMARK ME!
- do a W2S going in at 35 mins (the FAQ below says 30 min but your LO's cycle is 45 min so go in at 35) and shush/patting him right through the transition from one sleep cycle to another.  This does 2 things: it can prevent him waking fully and therefore get a better sleep as you don’t need to go through the whole resettling routine which is disruptive; teaches him that this nap is longer and he should continue to sleep.
How do I address habitual wakings? (wake-to-sleep and other methods)
Try the slightly longer A time and W2S for 3 days. Day 4 do not W2S but instead observe. If he wakes resettle as usual and continue W2S days 5,6,7.  If he transitions on his own then we can look at the rest of the day.

Patting is not thought of as a prop because it is easily weaned. Don't worry about it for now.  I'm sure you are not doing more than necessary to get him to relax and sleep. I think by the end of the day he is pretty OT so will need that help.

I would also consider getting him to bed earlier, rather than that long nap late in the day (which can mess things up, making him UT for BT even though he is overall OT from the day) leave it as a 45 min CN and get straight on with your bed time routine, bath feed etc and into bed early.

hope this helps, let us know how you get on.

[Florena49]

Thank you Creations i will gove it a go, do u think that will ne enough sleep for him if the 3rd nap is only 45 mins? I have already dropped the 4th nap because with the increased A time we just couldnt fit it in.
His first A time is 1.40 mins, he is rather grouchy already by then i will try and extend but im likely to get a 30 min nap, as he would be tired.

[creations]

He's only just below the guidance A time for age. If you prefer to try the W2S on the first nap without extending the A time then do that for a few days and see how things go. Yes it is not necessarily his A time that needs to go up but it's also worth noting at this age A times go up rapidly and you can end up playing catch up with short naps and short A times.  Getting fussy before a nap can also be because they are used to having a nap at that time and are readying themselves for it, gently extending the A time is sometimes needed to get where you need to be (tired enough for a longer nap).

See how you go for a few days.

[Florena49]

Thank u creations, we will give it a go next week once we return home from visiting grandparent and will report back. I must say its great having all of you here to help

[shannoncorrin]

I love this suggestion and I'm going to try this myself. I'm having the same problem (minus the night waking) with my 16 WO not be able to resettle after he wakes from transition in a nap.  He usually wakes between 20-30 min into a nap.  The only way to get him to sleep is to rock him until he is sound asleep and put him in this vibrating bassinet thing.  If I put him in the crib he wakes back up and I have to start all over again.  He is getting too big for his vibrating bassinet!!

I'm in the process of moving to a 3.5 hour easy and dropping his 4th nap.  I'm thinking I should wait a few days before doing a W2S right?  When you do W2S, do I go in at the 20 min mark.  His wake ups vary between 20-40 min.  I'm going to have to read up on it more. 

[creations]

we will give it a go next week once we return home from visiting grandparent and will report back.

Good luck   And enjoy your visit with GP.

shannoncorrin - you can use W2S now, there's no need to wait until you have moved to 3.5hr EASY, in fact it's a great method to help with these sort of transitions, I used it heaps during the 2-1 nap drop to help my DS sleep.  There's a link above to the FAQ. WUs 20 to 40 mins though sound like a mix of OT and UT.  You might want to post a new thread to have your EASY looked at (although if you are mid transition to 3.5hr and 4hr EASY perhaps this is the reason for the different WU times).  Good luck.

[Florena49]

Creations- just wanted to post an update and ask a few questions. I have had some luck with transitioning for the first nap, but it doesnt work everytime so for now i will carry on trying.
When i pat him through transition he always very briefly opens his eyes i havent managed to transition him without this partial waking, is this how it works?

[creations]

Yes that's fine. Even adults briefly wake during sleep (many times per night) but we don't remember it, so a brief wake or partial wake with eyes opening is no problem.
Did you want to post your EAS? Or do you feel comfortable to continue as you are with the W2S? (just keep in mind it's 2 wks since you began the thread and LO will likely take more A time by now - this is the month of shifting to 4hr EASY so you might be due another 15 mins or so A time)

[Florena49]

You know this is exactly what i thought today, we jad a while day of short naps and isually agter a 40 minite nap he would get whingy after 1.20-1.30 and go off to sleep easy, today he was still happy at that time and it was a struggle to get him to nap. His first A time is 2 hours should i try and push that out bu 10-15 mins and see how that goes for him? I will post EASY tomorrow, with weaning the dummy and swaddle this week routine is very much off. And we are slowly moving to 4 hours at 3.5 at the moment, it jusy doesnt always work with these short naps.

[creations]

If you are weaning the dummy and swaddle then your routine will understandably go a bit off. Just post when you feel you need/ready.
If it's a struggle to get him to nap and you feel it is not dummy/swaddle related but more because he is a bit too awake and alert then yes I'd go up 10- 15 mins.
hth