Author Topic: Twin 2 Year Olds Going Haywire  (Read 1167 times)

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Offline BrianC

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Twin 2 Year Olds Going Haywire
« on: September 30, 2014, 04:09:46 am »
Hi,

My wife and I had a lot of luck with the BW and this forum.  It has been close to a year since we've checked in as except for a few sick hiccups, teething, etc. we have had a lot of luck with our routine and both babies have been consistent night sleepers.

They are turning 2 in a few weeks.

Our one BW "blemish" was that we used pacifiers.  We tried kicking them around 1 year old, but they slept so good with them and they never really seemed to be a burden.  However they did start to become a problem towards the end of summer with the kids begging for them all the time.  So we went cold turkey in early September.  First night was rough, with each night thereafter getting better.  After about 5 nights they seemed to be over them and they basically forgot the existed two weeks later.

However there has been fallout...they just don't go down as easily as they did before and they tend to wake each other up more than they used to (they share a room).  This is especially bad during the "fall asleep" phase.  Our DD acts very restless for the first 30-60 minutes and our DS relaxes much faster but she wears him down and he gives up.  Sometimes we end up with both all riled up crying.

Their schedule:

Wakeup at 6:15-6:30 AM
Nap around 12:30 (DD sleeps avg 60 minutes, DS 120+, she always slept less than him)
Bedtime routine starts 6:45 PM (Bath, books)
Lights out: 7:15, fall asleep 10 to 20 minutes alter.

DD has had a LOT of nap problems the last two weeks...sometimes not napping at all.  She acts tired and falls asleep for 5-10 minutes and wakes up but won't go back down.  On those days we try to keep her from getting OT and take it easy after dinner until bedtime. 

They want to bring more and more "stuff" into the crib now.  Books, toys, extra lovies, etc.  We know it fires them up but are having a hard time drawing the line there.

For the past two weeks we're having lots of problems falling asleep, middle of night screaming, and waking up too early.  Doesn't seem to be teething.

Tonight was especially rough (hence the post) with both screaming for about an hour not wanting to be put in the crib.

How long does this last?  Is there something else we're missing the boat on?

Thanks,

Brian


Offline HenaV

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Re: Twin 2 Year Olds Going Haywire
« Reply #1 on: September 30, 2014, 06:00:40 am »
Hi Brian,

We had a similiar thing around this age with R. I think it's developmental. She had the bed hording too. If I told her no, I would find that she would just get out of bed and put eveything she could find on her bed to the extent, you couldn't see her!

It's tricky. I did draw the line. Said she could have x amount of soft toys, x amount of books. Sometimes it worked, other times she piled it high once I wS out of the room. I used to sneak in when I knew she was asleep and take a lot of the stuff out and put it by her bed as tho it had just fallen out yk

Nap times were tricky too. There were a number of NNDs. I however stuck to her routine - and even if that meant unwa Wi/WO for most of nt, I persisted. That way when the whatever it's is passed we were still in put routine and not having to getbbackmon track.

We had some night time regression too. I offered reSsaurance - and do Wi/WO if I needed to. It felt tough with one, I can't imagine how hard it must be with two.

Re: Routine - we had a later naptime at the age - I think l around 1pm for around 2.5h (R borders on hsn). I probably wouldn't change things up too much whilst you're bTtling through this phase, but it's with bearing in mind.

On NNDs you might want to consider EBT - it was out saving grace re: keeping OT under control.

Hth

Hena

Offline BrianC

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Re: Twin 2 Year Olds Going Haywire
« Reply #2 on: October 01, 2014, 03:02:31 am »
Thanks for the reply...I did WI/WO 2x tonight and they seem to be down.  Now pray we don't get a middle of the night wakeup.

What are other people's thoughts on toys/books in the crib at night?  Is this a slippery slope or no big deal?

Offline BrianC

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Re: Twin 2 Year Olds Going Haywire
« Reply #3 on: October 01, 2014, 21:29:23 pm »
So the WI/WO worked well at bedtime.  Went in 2x to just readjust blankets, some reassuring words, etc.  They were out by 7:30 PM.

We went to bed around 10:30PM.  At Midnight DS woke up with hysteric crying, "mama" and "out".  I tried WI/WO but nothing I would do would get him to lay back down.  Even picking him up and he was screaming in my face.  I started to get scared his twin sister would wake up so in a rash decision I pulled her out of her crib and put her in bed with mama--she did not stir.  I thought i was just "storing" her there while I worked with DS.

I tried absolutely everything I could for about 90 minutes, sitting next to his crib, shhhing, rubbing his back, all without removing him from the crib.  He would not stop crying.  I finally needed a sanity check and went back into our bedroom, mama watching my attempts on the baby monitor, DD fast asleep.  After 5 minutes, he started to calm down a bit, but was still crying, but he had lost some of his vigor.  It still was not a "going to fall asleep cry" so I went back in.  I finally got him to lay down on his own, I covered him and left.

I had to do this 3 more times over the next 10 minutes. On the 3rd time, he went out and was not heard from until 7AM.  This was at about 2:15 AM.

I went back to our bedroom to transfer DD back to her crib.  She never really woke up.  However when transferring her she woke up like a light bulb and she proceeded to go through almost the identical thing.  She basically screamed hysterically for 60 minutes with me next to her crib trying to console her (the whole time me flabbergasted on how her brother was not waking up).  She has a VERY shrill scream.  He never woke up.

After about an hour of trying to get her to relax she started to soften, a bit.  I remembered from our old PU/PD days that sometimes just sitting next to her crib did the trick so I sat there and eventually when she laid down I stayed next to the crib, patting and shhing her till she fell asleep.  I would do my best ninja exit but even the smallest creak in the floor and she would go full hysteric screaming and standing again.  I went the the process at least 3 more times over the next 45 minutes and she fell asleep.  It was about 4AM.

Typing this is therapeutic, but here's my questions:

First, a little more back story: all four of us were sick (my wife especially so) about 10 days ago.  There was a lot of just throwing them in bed with us because we or they were too tired to deal with this nonsense, lol.  So they were getting "spoiled" off and on.  They love it, of course.

1.  What should I do during the initial hysteric screaming?  It was like they had to get it out.  I'm praying to God it's not at all like last night again, but if it is, what else should I do?  Pull them out of the crib?  Shh-Pat Instead?

2.  Does anyone else with twins know what we should do if splitting them up is not an option right now?  As siblings they are going through a phase of either wanting to kiss and love each other, or are falling to pieces when one wants something the other has.  They seem to be more and more sensitive to each other's noises, especially cries for "mama", etc.

3.  The hysteric screaming and their posture is really uncharacteristic for both of them.  They don't really even look at you.  They just stand there trying to get you to pick them up, pointing to the door, screaming "out" or "mama".  I don't have the feeling these are night terrors, but even when you pick them up their hearts are racing so fast but they don't really connect.  Anyone had this behavior?

Of course when THEY wake up they are 100% and happy and back to normal (and they take a 3 hour nap at hte usual time). 

Any more ideas for us?

Thanks!

Brian

Offline HenaV

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Re: Twin 2 Year Olds Going Haywire
« Reply #4 on: October 02, 2014, 05:50:03 am »
Big big hugs xxxx

Sounds rough. I am not sure what I would have done in that situation with both to deal with.

3h nap? I thought from your original post DD had one hour and DS had two hours?

We had to ride out this phase but I did just have the one to deal with at
A time. Though camando crawls to exit I think are part if he deal no matter what!

I will see if I can get you some more eyes

H

Offline creations

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Re: Twin 2 Year Olds Going Haywire
« Reply #5 on: October 02, 2014, 07:26:40 am »
It's common for sleep to go right off track around birthdays and half birthdays so my guess is it's a developmental phase linked to their up-coming 2nd birthday. IME there isn't a huge amount you can do that you are not already doing. I know for my LO if he needed to be picked up then he needed to be picked up, even if just briefly. If I didn't then the screaming would go on and on, even with me right there with a hand on him, it wasn't worth it, a quick PU and reassurance helped him within a much shorter space of time.  One thing I read was the need for LOs to be 'heard' and one night rather than trying to shush mine and get him to stop crying as soon as possible I chose instead to hold him and to listen to every one of his 'complaints' until he had thoroughly discussed them all (through screaming and crying). I did lots of "yes" and "ahah" and "I hear you" comments and understanding noises like one does when listening to an adult and honestly I was amazed how much he seemed to appreciate this approach. (though it prob doesn't sound attractive in the middle of the night, esp with 2 to deal with)

There could also be some lingering SA from their illness, maybe they need to get that off their chests now they have the strength to 'tell' you just how awful they felt during that time.

Sorry, not lots of practical advice, only really to trust this will not go on for ever and you will get through to the other side.  Developmental stuff has always been crazy here.


Offline michaeljacknnugg

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Re: Twin 2 Year Olds Going Haywire
« Reply #6 on: October 02, 2014, 11:18:49 am »
We had more EWs than NWs at this age, but I think the same holds. DS used to do a monster EW (like 4am, far too many times) and then compensate by lengthening his nap. And we were so glad of the rest that we would nap too! I think this made it worse - so maybe, if you can, try to keep them to their 'normal' nap length even with NWs.

There is also a peak in SA at this age, as children realise that they can step away from you, their safety net. It might be worth looking on their bed hoarding antics as them building up their own places of safety. My DS has never done it, but friends of his have - and they are the children who have needed a comfort item more than he did, so I think it might be linked.

I would go to them and do as they ask at first - let them be heard, so to speak - and try to make it as brief an interaction as you can. If you step out of the room and say 'Ill be back to check on you' then they might not consider your leaving as a permanent thing. You have to follow through on the checking in though!

Lastly, there might be a little nap-dropping influence going on. I know all kids are different and a lot on here sleep during the day well into their 4th year, but my DS and a lot of his friends dropped their naps completely during their 2nnd year. I would (eventually) push the nap later and prepare yourself for the onslaught of 2 kids up all day! (and the best bit - longer evenings).

Hope that helps, I can't imagine how hard it must be with 2!
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Offline ZacsMumme

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Re: Twin 2 Year Olds Going Haywire
« Reply #7 on: October 03, 2014, 09:17:26 am »
Ugh, I just want to say I'm right there with you with my super angry spirited toddler at 10.25pm ::) following along and here to support you
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Offline 4isstillnighttime

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Re: Twin 2 Year Olds Going Haywire
« Reply #8 on: October 03, 2014, 12:38:06 pm »
My 2 are only 14 months, but I feel your pain with them waking each other. I don't really have any answers except that mine barely sleep at nights (so it feels  ;D) but very, very seldom wake each other. We don't have room to separate them so I just persevere, and hope for the best.

Good luck. I thought twin babies was tough but twin toddlers is a minefield too!!