LSN 1yo with short nights, EWs and 2:1 troubles

[BusterB]

I wonder if anyone who understands LSN can help me with our routine?

My son turned 1 three weeks ago and although we have been trying to transition to 1 nap for months, his EWs are getting so bad that I now have no idea how to get there anymore.

He has only ever averaged 10.5hrs a night, but is now only sleeping about 9-9.5hrs & has been waking between 4:30 & 5:30am for the last couple of weeks and is therefore crashing out at around 9am making each day a 2 nap day... perpetuating the situation.

I don't know if I am supposed to try and push him to 1 nap after a 5am wake up or if so what that day should look like?

His day sleep also tends to steal from his nights as a rule - so it's very rare for him to get more than 1-1hr20 nap/s in the day - giving us a lots of day to fill on 1 nap days.

After a *good* night (10.5hr) he can do 5.5-6hr A... but after these short nights I'm not sure how he'll fare, but I can try if that's what people do? I'd be very interested to hear other people's experiences as I feel like I can't do much more of the EWs so have to change something.

I just don't know how/what as EBTs make no difference and the variations in nap lengths usually make things worse (eg he got 1hr 45m naps yesterday & it shortened the night to 9hrs)

[MasynSpencerElliotte]

We are low sleep needs to but so far a 1 hr nap is not impacting the 10.5/11 hr nights we get. Anything more though can be directly subtracted from the night! Does anything help to resettle him at the ew? EBT does not work here either. Personally I try to push her to close to her normal naptime if we get an ew unless I think she is tired from teething or illness.

[BusterB]

You must be my luck charm MasynSpencerElliotte! 

I saw your reply this morning (thank you by the way!) as I was going in to my son at 5:25am, thinking that resettling him is impossible 95% of the time, but hey presto after 40 mins of BFing he dropped off again and is still asleep now... which means I can do the 1 nap day I have been trying to for the last 2 weeks. Think I finally got one of his OT catch up sleeps.

Is really interesting to hear how your lsn daughter likes things! I don't know any other lsn babies in real life, so don't feel that anyone really gets our sleep issues and all their very well meant advice is useless to our situation (my Mum's "if he is tired in the day, just let him sleep" being the worst!)

Out of interest, how old is your daughter and how long have you been on just 1 nap?

I have really struggled to push him after a 9/9.5 hour night as he just crashed out. Maybe I need to work much harder at keeping him awake as I tend to avoid going out, as the car/buggy are guaranteed sleep inducers, but by same token he can do huge A times when distracted I think! Maybe have answered my own problem there 

[MasynSpencerElliotte]

Hi, sorry it has taken me all day to get back o your post - has been a crazy day! DD3 is 12 months and has been on one nap since 7.5 months. Very rarely she has two nap days.

Lol at answering your own problem...another thought though, would a 10/15 min catnap in the am carry him to a later nap on the ew days? DD sometimes nods off for 5 on the way to the store if she has an ew and then carries on until 1 pm naptime. I dont know anyone with a lsn baby either, I think people irl think I am.making it up or forcing her into it to fit my schedule. Ha! I'd prefer long napsand Y time!

[BusterB]

Long naps & Y time? What on earth are they? 

So he did this yesterday

W/u @ 7:30
A - 5hr (he passed out in highchair eating lunch- never done that before!)
Nap - 1hr10 (woke crying)
A - 5.5hr
BT @ 7pm

Woke at 5am on the dot this morning & there wasn't a hope of resettling!

I tried a CN for a while & things really fell apart, but I think I'll try again as otherwise we are stuck doing 2 naps forever!

Roughly what time would you lo CN for it not to affect the nap? My son has managed 6 hour A after 4 minutes sleep before, so I have to be careful.

Also I know you said they don't work for you, but do you ever use EBT anyway rather than push, if you think you have hit OT? We don't seem to be able to avoid them at the moment but they only perpetuate our problems I think, don't know how to escape the cycle without just extending his nap - which also causes us issues & usually shortens our night?

[MasynSpencerElliotte]

I only did ebt once...half an hour early and although she settled well it resulted in nw and ew! My kids are all spirited and handle ot really well and if she does get tired bath time usually helps her to chill out (not sure why as all three kids are in the tub).

For a catnap to work we need a totally exhausted kid from an ew and no more than 5-10 min before 11:00 with nap time at 1:00 or 1:30. Usually it happens once every week or two by accident in the stroller, but she just had a gs and is gettng molars too!

[BusterB]

Help! Feels like things are just getting worse.

Last few days in particular; 9-10hrs sleep at night + NWs, waking at 5am and disturbed short naps.

We are doing an early CN around 8/9am, after the 5am starts (he pretty much passes out during breastfeeding) and then aiming for a nap of about an hour or so, around 1ish but today for eg he woke crying at 40mins and wouldn't resettle. This means we had to do EBT and I am seriously fearing a very early start tomorrow.

Although we had months of awful sleep - I don't understand how a month ago he did a week of STTN for 11-12 hours straight and now we are in such a mess. Surely if he is capable of that, then we probably don't have any prop/self settling issues right? But it feels like he suddenly unable to stay asleep & is needing my help to resettle.

Yesterday he woke crying from nap at 30 mins, I fed him back to sleep, he woke after 10 mins and then would only go back to sleep on me.  He used to do epic naps all by himself in the cot - so I'm at a bit of a loss as to what has changed? (Other than much longer A times obviously)

His wake ups between 4:57-5:25am are so regular now I'm starting to wonder if it might be a habit? Maybe because I feed him, because that is the only hope I have of resettling him?

W2S never worked on him as a baby and as he is LSN there is a major risk that if I accidentally wake him at say 4am, that's it - he's up... but I'm starting to feel desperate enough to try it!

I have no idea if this is teeth related as he is ok going to bed and I can resettle his NWs fairly easily, but if teeth are the EW cause, how on earth do I stop them waking him at 5am?! I can't medicate him in his sleep!

I'm feeling a bit desperate at the moment - I can't see an end to this and am not sure what else I can do. Any suggestions?

[BusterB]

Oh and I did consider he might be very OT & need more sleep... but on Sat he ended up getting longer naps as we had to travel and he was in the car (1hr 45 total) and that gave us a 9 hour night... So I don't think it's that exactly - but I do feel that OT in general is probably the root of out problems & I don't know how to fix it?

[MasynSpencerElliotte]

Could be a combo of built up ot and habit with the ew...I have always been scared to try w2s! But worth a shot if nothing else helps. Thing is if you can get a few later sleep ins and do one nap you might get more long nights and be able to do a good one nap day. When he had a week of sttn was that near his birthday? GS often happen at the year and half year mark and can leave them extra tired.

[BusterB]

Yes the long STTNs happened the week after his birthday actually and I figured it was GS related - but it also gave me hope that he was capable of it! Things have just deteriorated so much since though.

We had 2 NWs last night, which meant wake up has been pushed to 5:45am & with the EBT overall sleep was about 10.5 hours, so think he caught himself up a bit after the 40 min nap yesterday. Less day sleep definitely seems to = a slightly longer night here, but he was obviously OT with it.

One thing he has started doing when I resettle him - when I put my hand onto him in the cot, he holds my fingers or keeps checking they are there... this is a new thing though, not sure if it means anything or is just a general comfort thing?

From a 5:45 wake up would you push A time to 7 hours or still go for a CN?

[MasynSpencerElliotte]

Catnaps always come back to haunt us so I usually push through. DD3 used to like hand holding (I was the prop!) so I did some gw to stop it.