Bad at reading nap cues

[Palacemum]

Good morning.
I have a nearly 7 month old boy. We have been following a rough EASY routine for months but I am guilty of a lot of AP (baby has become dummy dependent and I drag him into bed most nights to get some sleep). Naps and sleep are not good ... I have a great opportunity to go to my mum's for 10 days starting on Monday to get this sorted, I have the baby whisperer book and am excited to get started! My main issue though is, I really struggle to read his sleepy cues. Today and yesterday, I put aside any chores i usually do in the morning to sit exclusively with my boy and watch him. We got up at 6.45 today, he was happy as larry til 8.40, then just got instantly grumpy! No warning signs, it was like he just switched. I tried to soothe him without his dummy (have tried to reduce day time use in preparation for cold turkey next week) but he just started sobbing on my shoulder. At 8.50 (so only been up just over 2 hours) I tried to put him in his cot but he got hysterical. So I obviously badly mis-timed it.

I don't want to waste this fab opportunity I have next week, so any advice on how to get the timings right for a 7 month old would be really appreciated.

[Palacemum]

I should add, he really did seem sleepy at 2 hours ... Burying his head into my shoulder when I picked him up, like he does when he's tired. 2 hours seems short but I'd say his first A time of the day does seem shorter (2-2.5 hours) than later ones which I can drag out to 3 hours, like yesterday. Although saying that bed time last night was not as successful as usual so maybe 3 hours is you much! So hard to tell

He did go to sleep this morning once I gave up settling him in the crib, and cuddled him on the bed (AP I know!) and then rolled away. I had to resettle him after 45 mins but he seems to have gone through to the next sleep cycle. Does this mean he was tired??

[Kellyjs]

Hi and welcome to BW. This is a great link to keep handy Average A times- BOOKMARK ME!!

I would really work on achieving some consistency. As you can see from the above link a 3hrs A time would be around right for his age. Some require less, some more. What is paramount at this age is that sleepy cues start to become very unreliable at this age, so don't worry about trying to read them. They can rub their eyes or be grumpy just because they're bored, hungry, thirsty etc etc. I used to change the scenery and see if that helped.

I really wouldn't worry about the dummy yet. Maybe just save it for nap and BT? Wdyt? Perhaps practice replugging it himself during A times for 10mims or so a day might help as well. What you do need to decide is whether you're happy having him in bed with you every night. Some are and that's fine, but it sounds like you'd prefer for him to sleep independently?

I would work on extending the A times firstly. Maybe just add an extra 15mins onto the morning one if you think he prefers a shorter one there. I think you at least need to be at 2hrs 45mims. Are you on 2 naps now? If you wouldn't mind posting your easy from the last few days including any NW's that'll be helpful too.

[Palacemum]

Thank you thank you for your response! I was so relieved to hear what you said about sleepy cues at this age - makes me feel like less of a failure for not spotting them!

The dummy issue is one that has been causing me so much turmoil. I've changed my mind about 100 times over the last week. On the one hand I am loathe to remove it, he goes to sleep so much easier with it, and actually getting him off to sleep (at night) is not really an issue (accept the last few dummy free days!) But he never stays asleep for long, he wakes very regularly and 75% of the time will go straight back to sleep if it's popped in.
So I can't see how I can make any progress with the sleep unless I remove the dummy? He is too young to put it back in himself at the moment.

I would do it step by step but I am going to my mums for 10 days while my husband is away. It will be so much easier to do any ssh/pat or PUPD at her house as I live in a flat with lots of grumpy neighbours! And I don't think you can do those techniques with a dummy? She's also going to help me by giving me opportunities to sleep in the day after our 'busy' nights! I kind of feel like I need to grab this opportunity.

Again with him sleeping in my bed at night, I actually don't mind this at all but kind of thought I had to stop doing this so he would nap without me? Or could I tackle naps first, then night time sleep? Not sure why but I thought I had to do it all in one go.

Routine wise, due to rubbish napping we do still usually require a cat nap to get us through the day. Yesterday looked like this though as he had a rare good afternoon nap:

Wake 0715
E (milk) 0730
A
E (solids) 0830
A
S tried to put him down at 930 to no avail. Had a swimming lesson at 11 so put him in the pram at 10.15 to try and get him to sleep en route. Slept for 20 mins 10.15-1035
E 1130 (milk)
A
S 1315 - 1515 (yay! In pram)
E 1530 (milk)
A
E 1650 (solids)
A
S 1830

So I managed to stretch out A time to 3 hours by bringing bed time fwd (usually 7pm) but he was soooo grumpy, hated his massage which he usually loves and wouldn't let me read him a book.
NW at 1847 (!), 1915, 1950, 2030. Each time I just popped the dummy in. Then slept til 2345 when I fed. Woke 0300 and I fed, brought into my bed where we had a good sleep til 0645!

A much more typical day is:
Wake 0630
E 0645 (milk)
A
E 0730 (solids)
S 0850 - 0935 (45 mins max)
E 1030 (milk)
A
S 1215 - 1300
E 1330 (milk)
A
S 1600 - 1645
E 1645 quick milk feed
A
E 1730 solids
A
E 1845 (final milk feed)
S 1900

The day in question he woke 1948, 2045, 2145, 2300 (fed), 0250 (fed), 0430 (brought into bed to get more sleep - did not feed). For the early wakings I just popped his dummy in and he went straight back to sleep.

Oh sorry I have waffled on for ages. I have so many issues I'm not sure where to start!

Edit: should have added, many of these naps are done on the move or being cuddled as it's so hard to get him down to sleep for a nap. It's much easier to get him off in his cot at bed time, although as you can see it doesn't last long!

[Kellyjs]

I'm so sorry hun, I have absolutely zero experience about dummies except what I've seen and read on here. If you feel like it's become more of an issue him staying asleep, then I would think about getting rid and sleep training right from the beginning. I mean, you're going to be pretty much changing everything if you feel that doing away with the dummy at the same time, it may take slightly longer, but it really is totally up to you. You may find it might be a little too much too soon?

It sounds like an absolutely perfect time to finally tackle the independent sleep issues. Having support (and sleep!) will help with you staying strong.

Personally I'm an all or nothing person, so I would tackle everything all at once. Naps and BT. The reason behind this is that I like DD knowing what's expected of her. Consistency is key and helps towards a happy bubba IMO. And Tracy always said 'start as you mean to go on'. So if you want to co-sleep long term for BT that's fine, but if you would rather naps and NS be in bed, then we will need to teach him that's what's expected.

What we need to find out is whether that last A to BT is OT or because he's not an independent sleeper. Those NW's in the early part of the night could be either tbh. I think we'll know more when we get through these 10 days.

So to start.. I would jump that first A straight to 2hrs 45mins. Then i would do your wind down routine, place him in his cot and use ssh/pat firstly if he's upset. If it escalates, you can use pu/pd but I believe that's really tricky with a dummy (if you decide to keep it), so it might be best to stick with ssh/pat. Use your voice too. A phase such as 'it's ok, honey, it's sleepy time' will reassure him. Remember there may be crying. But you are strong and keep in the back of your mind that you are teaching him an amazing skill of sleeping by himself. You are there to soothe, but it will be different to what's he's used to. Above all else, don't cave in and revert back to sleeping with him as this just gives him mixed signals that he has to cry for you to sleep with him. If after 20 mins, he doesn't settle. Get him up and read a book or something low-key, then try again. You may also find if this goes on too long, he may have an OT nap. Again, don't worry, it'll just be a case of trying again next nap.

What we do know is that he had a good nap after 2hrs 45mins A after a short nap so if that first nap is short, I'd do that A again. If you manage a good nap first thing, I would go with 3hrs A. Does that make sense?

For the NW's I would carry on as you are except for the not bringing into bed with you after the feed. Either/or both use ssh/pat and replug the dummy. It sounds like you have a good BT routine there.

I'm so sorry.. Reading this back, I've made it sound horrendous haven't i? I just want you to be prepared, but it will get easier hun. Back in a mo for some links for you x

Shush-pat - How to

How to PU/PD (inc age adaptations)

PU/PD and Paci Use. Why they don't mix.

There's a great link within this last link about the gentle remove plan if you decide you do want to do away with the dummy that'll help x

[Palacemum]

Thank you soooo much. Seems like a good place to start. Might post a quick Q on the props forum too... I will report back, and really appreciate you taking the time to help

[Palacemum]

So we did a nap after 2hr35min today (hard to stretch out further) but he woke at 30 mins ... Typically is this a sign of UT or OT?
Will stretch out to 2hr45min tomorrow!

[Kellyjs]

It depends hun, it could be OT or UT. Based on that A time though I would be inclined to think UT. WU's from an OT nap at 30mins tend to be easier to resettle and get them to sleep longer whereas if they're waking up happy and raring to go I'd be leaning towards UT. Good luck and keep me posted x

[Palacemum]

Ah yes it was def 'happy and raring to go' - thanks! Will report back in a few days