Author Topic: 20 month old not transitioning between sleep cycles  (Read 1889 times)

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Offline BstnMelody

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20 month old not transitioning between sleep cycles
« on: January 16, 2015, 14:23:52 pm »
So we hit the normal 18 month sleep regression in November, at the same time as moving to a different country, so we also got very bad separation anxiety and generally disrupted sleep. Then the holidays hit and we traveled for 3 weeks, which meant a lot of "help" getting to sleep. Plus, DD had the flu at that time, and also got tonsilitis, which meant even more help sleeping. Since Jan 3rd, we've been back in our home, and we were successful at getting DD to sleep through the night with no crutches within 5 days of arriving. However, we're still having problems with naps.

DD wakes between 6:45 and 7am, she goes down for her nap at 12:30, and then depending on how much sleep she got that day, I'll put her down somewhere between 7 and 8pm.

Now the problem with her naps is that she doesn't transition between sleep cycles anymore..this started at 18 months. She wakes up after the first 50-60 minutes. She needs to be helped back to sleep with rubbing the back, or head, or belly. The 2nd sleep cycle can be up to 45 minutes, but usually it's 20-30 minutes. Sometimes I can get her back to sleep for a 3rd sleep cycle, sometimes not. So most days, she gets 60-80 minutes of sleep. This just isn't enough. I can tell because historically when she was well rested, she woke up happy, and when she was unrested, she woke up crying. Right now, she always wakes up crying. In addition, she's now typically cranky all afternoon, and she falls quite a lot, making activities that are physical difficult in the afternoons.

Yesterday I did an experiment to see what would happen if she napped with me in bed. She woke up after the 1st hour, as normal. Opened her eyes, smiled at me, then went back to sleep. Same thing after the 2nd hour. Her 3rd sleep cycle was then 20 minutes. So in total she got 2 hours and 20 minutes. And she was an absolute delight all afternoon after having such great sleep. I put her down at 7:30 for bedtime, but I think that was a mistake, as she woke at 6:15 this morning. I probably should have put her to bed slightly later.

So I guess my question is how do I get her to transition through her sleep cycles herself? I'm already not picking her up, and providing just a minimal amount of help in her crib, but even after a few weeks, that doesn't seem to be working.

This afternoon I'm trying cry-it-out. She only slept 50 minutes for her first sleep cycle, she cried for 8 minutes, then laid down again for 15 minutes. Not sure if she actually fell asleep again or not. Then she got up and started crying again, but lost her pacifier. So I went in, gave her the pacifier back, sang her a song, and left. She's now be in there by herself crying on and off for the last 20 minutes. I guess I'll try this method for a few more days, but I could really use some help if anyone has experience with this!

Thank you!

Offline Haribo2012

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Re: 20 month old not transitioning between sleep cycles
« Reply #1 on: January 16, 2015, 16:14:44 pm »
Hi hun, firstly please do not use CIO as we don't support that here on BW it breaks the trust between child and parent. We use gentler methods so if your happy to try something else, we are happy to help.

Have you tried extending her morning a bit, she might not be tired enough to transition? It would suggest if she can sleep through the night that she can self soothe so moss could be UT.
Zoe


Offline Buttonbobs

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Re: 20 month old not transitioning between sleep cycles
« Reply #2 on: January 16, 2015, 16:51:35 pm »
Hi there, like Zoe has said, on this forum we do not support the use of Cc or CIO, but we can offer other more gentle methods to help your child learn to settle herself again during naps. It does sound like she used to be able to self soothe so I would recommend you try WIWO, which is summarise in this post:

Walk In/Walk Out vs. The Gradual Withdrawal Method (HOW TO CHOOSE)

The important thing as far as this is concerned is that you walk in and reassure, and then leave again. If she starts crying, you go back in, and then leave. You do this as many times as necessary until she settles herself. Some children need the actuL presence, my DD preferred verbal reassurance from outside of her door, as my presence in the room led her to be more disrupted. You'll have to find what works best for your DD.

But I do agree with Zoe, it does sound like she may be a bit UT for that nap, and if she were a bit more tired she'd find it easier to get through those sleep cycle lighter sleep patches.

If you'd like to try the gentler methods we're happy to help support you.
~ Naomi ~




Offline BstnMelody

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Re: 20 month old not transitioning between sleep cycles
« Reply #3 on: January 17, 2015, 14:14:25 pm »
Hi both! Thanks for the speedy response!

Regarding CIO. It's a bit unfair of me to call it that, as it wasn't real "I need help" crying. Rather is was complaining crying. My daughter has quite figured out how to manipulate the situation. ;-) I read both of Tracey's books and I thought I remembered seeing that complaining/mantra crying is OK to leave them, but real "I need help" crying is when you need to step in. Is that wrong?

So I think you must be right about the under-tired thing. She was actually taking her nap closer to 1pm back in October/November before we moved countries, but I changing it back to 12:30, as she was waking quite early in the morning once we moved. Today's nap may also prove your point. She woke early at 6am, and I was afraid to push her nap later than 12:30, with the early waking, so we did the normal 12:30. Rather than waking after the 50/60 minute sleep cycle, she stirred at 50 minutes, but didn't wake crying until 1hour 15 minutes. I then went in, laid her back down, put my hand on her back for a minute, then removed it and just stood over the crib. She opened her eyes a few times to check if I was still there, but she was firmly back asleep within 5 minutes. She's now been in her 2nd sleep cycle for 15 minutes.

So I guess standing there over her crib was my start to the gradual withdrawl method. Thanks for the info on that!

So my overall plan is to use the gradual withdrawl, move bedtime slightly later again (to 8pm, which is what it used to be before we moved and everything went awry), and then move her nap later. What are your thoughts on how much I can move nap time (assuming she wakes at normal time tomorrow)? When she was younger, I used to only push her by 15 minutes every few days. Now that she's older, do you think I can try moving it 30 minutes to 1pm or would that be too much?

Thanks again for the help!

Thanks for the information on the gradual withdrawl method. I think I tried that.

Offline Haribo2012

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Re: 20 month old not transitioning between sleep cycles
« Reply #4 on: January 17, 2015, 15:28:25 pm »
Yes a mantra cry is ok just not real I need u cry. If it's getting as long as 20 mins I'd get her up and try the nap a bit later.
I personally moved 20/30 mins a time but just included an extra story so we were being relaxed and quiet in that time. It's really dependant on how LO copes with being tired?
Well done on the nap  :) x
Zoe


Offline Buttonbobs

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Re: 20 month old not transitioning between sleep cycles
« Reply #5 on: January 17, 2015, 16:36:01 pm »
Sounds like a plan :)
~ Naomi ~




Offline BstnMelody

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Re: 20 month old not transitioning between sleep cycles
« Reply #6 on: January 18, 2015, 14:24:46 pm »
Just a quick update to say that you were both clearly right about under-tired! I really should have guessed. Every other time she started waking early in the morning and her naps shortened, I extended her awake time and it fixed the issue. For some reason, I just didn't see it this time. Took someone else pointing it out to open my eyes!

DD woke at 6:20 this morning (blah...hope that goes back closer to 7am soon!). I put her down at 12:50 (20 minutes later than usual, as per your suggestion). She was asleep independently at 12:55. It's now 2:20, and she just woke, which means she slept for 1 hour 25 minutes. I haven't seen a nap that long without helping her transition in almost 2 months. Woo hoo! What's more, is she is just laying in bed wiggling around, rather than waking screaming like she normally does. Double woo hoo!

I'll probably keep nap time around 1pm for a few days to see how that goes, and then move 1:15pm to see if I can get her closer to a 2 hour nap. Seems I don't need to use the gradual withdrawl after all! ;-)

Offline Buttonbobs

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Re: 20 month old not transitioning between sleep cycles
« Reply #7 on: January 18, 2015, 16:14:00 pm »
That's fab news, I'm so pleased for you all.

It's amazing how clear these things can be when you're not the one dealing with the reality of the situation. I've always found it easier to see what tweaks might help with other people's LOs than with my own, it's hard when you're tired too. :)

Your plan sounds a good one - like you say try for a few days to let her settle on the new time and then extend a bit more if needed.

Good work :)
~ Naomi ~




Offline Haribo2012

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Re: 20 month old not transitioning between sleep cycles
« Reply #8 on: January 18, 2015, 18:11:10 pm »
Yahey fantastic news  :)
Sounds like a plan x
Zoe