Ruined sleep training on day one?

[suzannebowie]

Hi all! I've posted previously about  13 week old  Henry's sleep problems and it's just got worse lately so I decided to start gentle shush pat sleep training to keep him in his cot-he loves being held and I have got into the habit of holding him for naps in the house and between 7-10 at night. Bizarrely he goes into his cot in our room quite happily after his df and sleeps until morning.

So first nap of the day was hard work. I put him down on his cot and gave him a chance to settle himself.  When this didn't work we were Shush patting until it was time for next feed. Taken for walk in pram for 2nd nap. 3rd nap put into cot awake and did modified shush pat-rub head with hand on chest. He cried but calmed himself down. Ami naive to think he won't cry or should I be trying to avoid this? I've noticed that picking him up annoys him more because he thinks finally I can get some sleep and then I put him down again!!  He stayed asleep for 10 minutes in the cot and the. Had a massive jolt and he woke up crying and I couldn't calm him in cot. I picked him up and calmed him but didn't want to get into pupd scenario so put him on firm memory foam pillow on floor on front of me and he slept there for 45 minutes when he woke and I resettled him. He had another massive jolt after another 10 minutes and I just got him up for his next feed.

I guess my question is where to next? Don't fancy watching him sleep on a pillow for the forseeable future but not sure what my next steps should be! Feel like I've failed on day one for not persevering in the cot! Also, would it be very bad to tackle naps before bedtime sleep? I can't bear the thought of 3hrs shush patting in the dark tonight...but would this ruin everything? Any advice appreciated and sorry this ended up so long!! X

[Haribo2012]

Hi hun, u haven't ruined anything it's hard work and honestly back breaking bending over shushing and patting for hours.
Personally I'd tackle 1 nap first then if you have to apop the others don't worry about it. Defo start in naps it's easier when you've not had a day of it and for your sanity u can't spend all those hours in the dark hun.

I used to shush pat with DS up on my shoulder so my head was close to his ear, then when he was drowsy put down but still shushing and head really close while patting whole time, then when down patting chest and leg until asleep!! Continuing through first jolt, then sneaking in after 30 mins watching for the jolt and hands and ready to apply some pressure and pat.
Any sleep training can give crying but at this age I'd spend longer cuddling and getting really drowsy. x

[suzannebowie]

Hiya! Thank you so much for your reply, I feel reassured now!  I hear what you're saying about getting drowsy but it's virtually impossible. With my girls I could cuddle/pat until pretty much asleep and then put them down but little mr Henry is having none of it!! He seems to really need to settle himself but then...he can't lol! If I do try to settle him in my arms he wants to stay there and when I put him down he wakes right up-this could be 5,20 or 1hr into a nap, it doesn't seem to matter.   As far as the crying is concerned do you think it's ok as long as I'm there? I don't want him to have to CIO but I think calming him in the cot instead of in my arms *might* work for him based on today anyway. I'm hoping that Surely if im patting/striking his head he couldn't feel too abandoned? Really don't want to traumatise him!

[Haribo2012]

Boys are just monkeys I've decided lol! If your with him then crying is ok, if he gets worked up then pick up cuddle and start again. My DS liked words as well instead if shushing so I'd just constantly say it's ok your just tired, relax, sleepy time etc. CIO isn't the same as being with him so providing u stay there it's not CIO.
How's his A times?x

[suzannebowie]

1 awake time. He starts showing sleepy signs after 45 minutes so I takes him for his wind down  which lasts about 5-10 minutes and then put him in his cot awake. We have success with the first nap of the day where he can settle himself and stay asleep for 1.5-2hrs but honestly this has even been going wrong lately.  The rest of the day is a write off where he can never settle himself. This seems like such a short awake time and I'm not confident enough to persevere with shush pat when I'm not sure his a times are right. My mum and mother in law keep telling me he'll sleep when he's tired and to just keep him up but all my instincts say he's easily over stimulated and this overtired but I just feel like I'm constantly either feeding him,trying to get him to sleep or holding him while he sleeps! With two other dd it's not practical!

Boys! Aren't yet just!! His sisters were textbook easy babies an I guess I just expected more of the same...Extended his Awake time by 5 mins this morning but no luck, he couldn't settle to sleep in his cot but I picked him up and settled him and much like yesterday he went down on the nursing pillow beside me for 45 mins then I resettled him in my arms before putting him back on the pillow where he woke up 5 mins after with a huge jolt and I couldn't resettle him so just brought him down for his next feed. Using apop for this nap so he is currently being held on the couch! Do you think it's progress that I was able to put him down at all or am I just kidding myself? Am going to try again for next nap and see if I get any success with pillow again I think-what are your thoughts? Xx

[MasynSpencerElliotte]

I think you may have an easier time sleep training if you extend his A time a bit more...check out this link for averages by age.

Average A times- BOOKMARK ME!

So at 13 weeks about 1 hr 20-30 min would be average so he is well below that so the short naps are not too surprising as he is probably undertired. What type of tired signs are you seeing at the 45 min mark? With my middle DD I pushed her A time out by doing really low key things for the last bit...even walking up and down a dim hallway!

As for using the pillow, personally I would go for extending A times and then try the crib as I would not want a prop to wean but that is up to you!

[suzannebowie]

Thanks for your input! I'll try tomorrow and just persevere with the cot because deep down I think i knew that I was maybe just replacing one prop with another but I was just so happy he was sleeping somewhere other than on me!! Xx

[suzannebowie]

And sorry-sleepy sign is generally just yawning but I remember reading in one of Tracy's book to act on the first yawn so that's really what I've been doing-do you think I should ignore these first yawns and try to stretch him out a little more? Xx

[weaver]

Hi Suzanne, Sorry I haven't read all the way through the thread so perhaps someone has mentioned this.  You said on your other thread that Henry has touchy traits - you really need to take that into consideration in your handling of him My LO1 was a touchy/sensitive baby, and paying attention to his touchy traits really paid off in STing.  He really loved his routine (acted like a textbook baby when routine was right!), including the routine of his wind-down, was very sensitive to OT and OS (overstimulation), loved a long wind-down as a small baby (around your H's age), but learned how to sleep independently really really well by about 5 mos, I think.  Given the sensitivity to OT, I would keep the last bit of A time super low-key, particuarly as you're pushing A times.  LO1 also needed lots of physical contact, particularly if out and about, it really helped him relax.  It was amazing what he could breeze through if he was in the baby carrier!

Hope some of that helps a bit. 

[suzannebowie]

Thanks very much for that! I like what you said about the long wind down because I'm sure Henry's the same although he doesn't like to be held to wind down, I put him in his cot and turn on his projector which eventually turns to white noise. I was afraid it might be too OS for him but it seems to really calm him down and focus him-do you think it's helping or hindering though?
 I increased his awake time before bed tonight and he settled really easily -into arms but still easier than he has in weeks and isn't freaky OT awake so I can eat dinner wahay!!

[weaver]

do you think it's helping or hindering though?

I think you're best placed to tell, honestly Depends on how he sleeps after, I suppose.

Every baby is different so even within the category of touchies, they'll have different things they like or don't.  LO1 was all about being held and sh-patted, a projector wouldn't have worked for him, it would've wound him up, definitely.

I increased his awake time before bed tonight and he settled really easily

That's great!

[suzannebowie]

Morning ladies! So, this mornings nap was a disaster! I think it's because I'm not confident enough in what I'm doing. I extended his a time as discussed so he probably went into his room at 1.05hr and  I put him down as usual and he was really upset from the start. I picked him up to calm him and when he was calm I put him down and did my modified shush pat in the cot. He got really upset quite quickly so I picked him up again to calm him. He practically fell asleep the instant I picked him up and when he was nice and calm I put him down again where he got really upset instantly. This cycle continued three times before I decided to just try to calm him in the cot and keep him there because I don't think the picking up is doing any good other than lulling him into a false sense of security so when I put him down he gets really upset. I tried to calm him in the cot for about 30 minutes but he just cried so hard I thought he was going to choke himself. He calmed down maybe three times but always started crying again. When he started making an awful gagging noise I picked him up and I'm ashamed to say I haven't put him back down because I hate to see him so upset. I feel like all I've achieved is watching him cry for half an hour! Is this normal? Should I just persevere through the crying? Thanks in advance xx

[suzannebowie]

Eventually managed to put him down on nursing pillow again on couch beside me and he's slept there ever since-not being held yay...woke up at 45 mins and was easy to resettle xx

[weaver]

I'm ashamed to say I haven't put him back down because I hate to see him so upset.

Never be ashamed of picking up your baby!  You know when he needs you, so pick him up and be proud   Glad he got a good nap in the end.  The BW approach says that crying is communication, so try to work out what he's saying when he's crying (I think in this case, pick me up was the message).

I'm not clear from your description of what you're doing - are you sh-patting and then continuing the sh-pat in the cot?  I had to do that with my touchy one.  A good five mins or so in my arms and then ever so gently into the cot and keep shushing and patting, gently reducing what you're doing That's how he learned to sleep in his cot, my baby who refused point blank to go in a buggy!

[suzannebowie]

Thank you, that's nice of you to say. I'm not shush patting to settle him because he doesnt like it,he fight and squirms if I try to hold him so I put him in his cot with his projector/white noise to give him a chance to settle himself because it seems he's happier that way. When he starts getting unhappy I do a modified shush pat/stroke his head/pat shoulder to calm him down.   When I need to pick him up I still pat his shoulder (he has reflux) and continue that when I put him down.