7 month old doesn't sleep at night

[becj86]

Also, can you please say how old he is now?

[Islandmama]

I tried turning him on his side but he just throws himself back onto his back and yells at me He is almost 9 months old and is not crawling yet but has recently started falling backwards from a sitting position and pulling himself back up (like a little sit up). He has been doing this a lot during the extended NW, even while half asleep, I guess this is a developmental thing he is practising?

I almost don't know where to start with posting our EAS, it has been all over the place now because of how bad the nights are, I sometimes end up back in bed with him until 10 or 11am - so bad I know!

Usually our days are like this:

8/9am - wake up, nurse
9:30 - breakfast
11/12am to 1pm/2 pm - nap
1/2pm - lunch
5pm to 6pm - nap
8:30/9 - bed

On the really bad days when he is up from 3am to 7am, we sleep until 10, and then he ends up taking one long 2.5 to 3 hour nap, and I put him to bed earlier - 7/7:30. he wakes up every 2 to 3 hours and my husband is able to shush him back to sleep usually and I end up feeding maybe once or twice during the night. Then at 3 or 4am he wakes up and refuses to go back to sleep.

I know we are all over the place and this week I have vowed to maintain an 8am wake up. Our finances are in a bind at the moment and we cannot survive without the work I do online into the wee hours of the night, and then by the time I go to bed, he is up and ready to play for hours while nursing on and off. I try to work during the day but that's more difficult with two other children and household stuff that needs to be done. His crib is in our room and we try to stay out of the room until it's time to go to bed.

He has still been sleeping either in his chair or in bed with me. In bed with me he will sleep for hours. However I am ready to get him into his crib. We shush patted on and off tonight until he finally fell asleep at 10:20 and is now up again at 11:40 - my husband is shushing him now.

He is very upset at this new change and my heart is breaking for him. I know there is an 8/9 month sleep regression, and he is teething too (he has no teeth yet) and I know I have ruined his sleep with the schedule being all over the place I am ready to try to get things organized for both our sakes but not sure if I'm trying to do too much at once.

[Islandmama]

He will be 9 months old on the 25th of March.

[becj86]

Ok, it looks like you're shooting for 3hr A time still - that was good at 6-7 months, now its probably not really enough and he's probably fighting naps because he's not tired.
What are A times and how do they fit into the EASY plan?
Sample EASY Routines from 0 - 13mths+

The long NWs in the middle of the night are usually that he's getting too much day sleep overall or he's getting that first nap too early in the day. This routine starting at 8/9am and BT at 8/9pm may not fit well with his body clock, babies often have a clock that is more 7-7 than 8-8/9-9. I can imagine getting up at 7 could be your idea of a nightmare given you work in the night! What's your ideal routine? What are your other children doing sleep-wise?

[~*Nicole*~]

Just wanting to offer some hugs and support. My DD#2 is about the same age, just turned 9 months on March 24th. She also wakes up several times at night to nurse and is still in our bedroom so I know how that feels. I also co-sleep a lot when she's ill or teething or wakes too early or...... you get the idea.

We haven't really extended our A times from around 7 months old very much either, but I am starting to think that we need to for similar reasons. She is taking shorter naps on 3 hours and I am sure I'll have to keep her awake and occupied for longer in order to get better naps and that might reduce our NWs also.

Looking at your schedule, it seems like the timing might be off a bit as bec was saying. If the nap is too early and then he can't make it to a good "bedtime", he'll need another nap to get through, but then that last nap is pretty late and also long enough to make bedtime get pushed later OR for him to think 5pm IS bedtime and that the 6pm wake up is his first night wake...So I'm thinking his body is tired and perhaps a bit confused about how much sleep it needs and at what time. I might consider capping that late nap to preserve a good bedtime or pushing out that first awake time and first nap so that after the second nap he can stay awake for a longer awake time again to meet his age needs. It might push your bedtime a bit later but that might work for you based on your job?

[Islandmama]

Thanks for the responses! Yes I am wondering if we should be aiming for 3.5 A times but he still seems tired at that 3 hour mark, should I still try to push to 3.5? Early wake ups are brutal for me, but if it would help to decrease the amount of NW, I am all for it. I spend a good chunk of my night reassuring/nursing/shushing back to sleep and lose a lot of time that could be spent working. I could get to bed much sooner if I had a few uninterrupted hours to work after he goes to bed.

My older boys are 9 and 4, they go to bed at 8:30 during the week. They have been great sleepers since being sleep trained as infants and were both sleeping through the night by 9 months. I don't know why I dropped the ball this time. I keep talking to my husband about implementing shush pat and not picking him up whenever he wakes, but the truth is I am avoiding it because I hate to see him upset, I am a complete wuss this time around and the thought of patting away while he yells at me to cuddle him isn't enticing at all I have tried it a couple of times and he. was. not. having. it. I feel like shush patting turns into PU/PD because he gets so upset that I am shushing instead of picking him up that I have to hold him to calm him down. Then as soon as his back touches the crib he gets angry again. Is this all normal?

For now I have been nursing or rocking to sleep and placing him in the crib for most of the night then bringing him into bed when he gets too restless. He is up every 2 to 3 hours although sometimes it extends to 4 (progress??). Also he has no teeth at all and I always wonder if he is teething and therefore suffering somehow without me knowing. Aggghhh. I will work on a 7am to 7pm routine. In terms of actual sleep training I may need some words of encouragement.

[becj86]

So, he will be tired for that first nap at 3hr, because he's been up half the night. Increasing that first A time may give you some OT naps initially (be ready to resettle at 30min) but should help with the NWs. I think given you're reasonably close to a decent A time, increasing in 15min chunks every 4-5 days (longer when LO is older, they take longer to adjust) may help - that reduces the likelihood of the OT wakings from nap.

How have you gone with the 8am starts?

I wonder if reflux is at play here? Is he sleeping flat when he's in with you? The reason I ask is that screaming the moment he's flat is sometimes a symptom of that. Sometimes its just that baby isn't keen on the crib. Reflux 101 - General reflux information

[~*Nicole*~]

I feel like shush patting turns into PU/PD because he gets so upset that I am shushing instead of picking him up that I have to hold him to calm him down. Then as soon as his back touches the crib he gets angry again. Is this all normal?

For now I have been nursing or rocking to sleep and placing him in the crib for most of the night then bringing him into bed when he gets too restless. He is up every 2 to 3 hours although sometimes it extends to 4 (progress??).

TBH both my reflux babies and non-reflux babies tended toward wanting to be picked up to be soothed rather than shhh/patted. I know reflux did contribute to not sleeping longer stretches for my two refluxy bubs, but all three would scream upon touching the crib mattress if they had fallen asleep or been rocked prior which I think honestly had more to do with moving from a snuggly, warm place to a flat, cooler place in that moment of relaxed, sleepiness. If I was able to lie them down with a blanket that was warm from being against our bodies and apply some pressure with my arms/hands before backing away, I could get them to lie down either sleepy or already asleep without screaming but it took ninja skill and was not really teaching them to sleep independently.

[Islandmama]

I don't think he has reflux as he will contentedly sprawl on his back next to me for hours asleep in bed. Last night he was up so often I didn't get to finish my work until 5AM and then he was up until 7AM. I went back to bed with him until 10, so today was a complete bust. I do want him to learn to sleep independently. But as I said he gets so upset during shush patting, I end up inadvertently doing PU/PD because I have to pick him up to calm him and then he starts crying again as soon as I put him down. What should I do in that situation?

He had a doctor's appt yesterday and the doctor mentioned he may have two to four teeth coming in. They are taking FOREVER in my opinion.

This is hard

[becj86]

Is there something you can do like patting or singing or something that you can continue as you put him into bed? Can you give him a blanket or a lovey so he's got something with him that he can use as a comfort item?

Teething can play havoc with sleep too, it just is painful

If you're not consistent, this will take a long time. Babies thrive on predictability so if you change the way he goes to sleep and the times he sleeps so much from day to day, sleep training isn't going to work. Given he's spent his entire life sleeping with you, its going to take some time, even if you are consistent.

[Islandmama]

Yes, you're right. Will try my hardest for the next week to keep him on a schedule and check back in on how it's going, thanks so much!

[Islandmama]

We're doing well with his daily schedule so far, but I am just realizing our biggest enemy here is his eczema. I thought it was fairly mild but we've had some flare ups lately and the itching has gotten worse for him. He always scratches a lot at night or when he's upset or tired but lately it's been worse. I realize we can't sleep train while he's going through this so I may need to accept that he will not sleep through the night until he outgrows some of these symptoms. I'm considering switching from breastmilk to formula in case something in my diet is affecting it. Is there any support forum here for eczema babies? In the meantime I guess all we can do is keep him on a schedule and try to make him as comfortable as possible. I feel so bad for him.

[becj86]

Lots of bubs with eczema also have reflux/food intolerances, etc. so the colic reflux and crying board is good for that: Colic, Reflux, & Crying You could also try the Medical board but I think you'll get more experiences eyes on the CRC board.

Elimination diets, etc. are all things the CRC mummas know a lot about, as well as the pros, cons and hows of switching to formula.