2 year old having SA at BT, naptime and NW

[NinNic]

Hi,

LO turned 2 2 weeks ago, since then she is having SA at nap, bedtime and also NW. Also wants mummy or daddy to be around during the day. Usually when going through SA phase we would pat her to sleep, but after last SA phase we would sit next to her or by door and reassure her that we were there. This time it is too tiring for us to sit next to her and sitting by door is not working as she gets so upset so we have to be in the room. As my husband and I are very tired we have started putting a mattress on floor in her room and either one of us lie on it time for BT so she can fall sleep and also when she wakes in night my husband goes in to her room sleeping on mattress for rest of night when she has NW. I'm worried that it will be difficult for her to start falling asleep on her when she is over her SA phase. Usually she has been fine going back to sleeping on her own after patting or sitting next to her bed with some GW by sitting by her door. Am I overreacting?

Her day looks like this:
WU around 7 am or earlier if she wakes from crying from SA
Nap around 1:40 pm for 1.25 hrs
BT put to bed 7:50 pm falls asleep for last few days at around 8:30 pm, last week was more around 8:45 pm


I feel it does take her time to fall asleep for BT, don't k now if it's because of SA or time to shorten her nap. Should I just wait until SA phase is over to see if naps need to shorten? Before SA started she was falling asleep around 8-8:20 pm.

[ginger428]

Hi there,
I think this is very common for the 2nd birthday. It's a mix of renewed SA and also testing boundaries. We went through/are going through the same thing and it's such a fine balance to meet their needs but establish limits. Unfortunately and expectedly, ime, the longer we support DS the more difficult it becomes to remove the support. Usually 1-2 days is ok for us, but any more or more times than that a week and we have to gently sleep train. During SA, we go in as often as needed but reduce the amount. I know it is so tough but after you and DH feel remotely rested enough (maybe alternate nights for attending to her), I recommend removing the mattress and revert to going in and reassuring with your voice and sleepy phrase (stay longer if needed but wait longer in between speaking, and/reduce volume).  I recommend doing this instead of patting at this stage because she seems to respond well to your presence but we want to make it easy for you to leave.  Start leaving the room earlier and earlier as she settles down with just the voice. It might upset her, but it should work after a few days, especially after the SA phase ends. We can revisit if it doesn't. Another thought, with my lo, I would do the above but then say 'oh mommy has to go to the potty. I'll be back' and wait to see if he falls asleep. Itms worked maybe half the time. I use other excuses too like, i have to go downstairs and close the door. And sometimes I just say i'll be back if you need me and really nonchalantly and without fuss, leave the room.

Some questions for you,
How does she go down for bedtime? I.e. Song, story, put down awake, turn off lights.When is her NW? Has she always needed a long A time in the morning?

Hugs and Hang in there!

[NinNic]

Hi and thanks for your reply! 

Sorry for late reply, LO hurt her leg so been tied up with her as she couldn't walk for a while.

I did what you advised in regards to GW and things are much better now. She can still cry a bit when put down but then I reassure her by the door and she calms down. NW are better too.

How long can this phase go on for as I still feel its a bit up and down? Tonight she was tossing and turning for over 40 mins, which is usually not normal. I know she was tired when I put her down. Maybe just new experience that we went bathing in the ocean today maybe?

Usually BT takes her around 30 mins to fall asleep. DH changes diaper, read for her, give her snack, then I brush her teeth, turn off lights sing one song and put her down then walk out if not crying a lot (usually I go out even if crying to see if she stops and then come back if I have to). Yes it seems that she has been on long A in morning if that is long A for her age. Even if I put her down a bit earlier to see if she falls asleep earlier she won't before 1:30 pm unless she is really tired, it is normally anywhere around 1:40-1:50 pm even. I try to get her to sleep for around 11 hrs at night or I find her grumpy in am so WU around 7:10 am or she wakes earlier herself.

[ginger428]

np! I just returned from a trip so sorry my late response.

Oh no about the leg! I hope it is mending well now?

Wonderful news about the progress.

How long does this phase last?... For us, it took several weeks. Then we took a 2 week trip that was loaded with sleep props, and we are back to GW.  The more willing I am to reassure him and meet his emotional need, the more easy it seems for him to get back to IS. For instance, tonight... I held him in the rocking chair (because he asked), then as he grew tired, I moved him to his bed nonchalantly and walked out.  If he cried out for me, I would've gone right back in. The other night, he wasn't having it and I rocked him to sleep. Then moved him to his bed.

30 mins at BT was typical for us around the 2nd birthday, too. I was told that 20-30 mins is normal for toddlers.  I miss the 5-15 doze off when he was younger! But as long as he falls asleep, I'm happy. 

11hr nights sound perfect.  You may find you'll have to tweek nap times if your LO is LSN like mine. But let's cross that bridge when you get there.

[NinNic]

Thanks for advice!

Yes leg is much better now, thanks for asking! 

I've noticed that is it is taking her longer to fall asleep at BT for past few days, more around 30-40 mins. Might have to cap nap further, but think will wait and see.

We are going on holidays for 2 weeks end of September and we will probably be bathing every day. I noticed that when she did that every day for a few days when we were away in June she might have needed a longer nap than usual as she seemed very tired after a few days and especially when we got home. Do you think she might need more sleep with sun and bathing every day, which she is not normally used to?

She is starting kindergarten in October after holidays. At home she naps at 1:45 pm, but in kindergarten she will nap around 12 pm. I know that she will probably be more tired being there than with me, but do you think it will result in her waking much earlier on morning with nap at 12 pm? I really don't want her to start waking 5-6 am in morning!

How long is your LO napping and how many hours sleep at night? I dunno if she is LSN.

[ginger428]

Hi there! Apologies for the reeeally late response. 

Any developments since the last post?

Do you think she might need more sleep with sun and bathing every day, which she is not normally used to?

I'm assuming you mean sun-bathing outside? It may certainly tire her out as it was IME and for many of my friends on vacations and such. At the same time, it depends on how the days are going overall.  If she is all caught up on sleep, but has a long nap one day after bathing, her night may end up being shorter. Or say she got a little less sleep for a few days, after which she may tack on a long nap to her overall sleep. Since it is a holiday, I recommend being flexible and offering naps, but stick to the routine whenever possible.

She is starting kindergarten in October after holidays. At home she naps at 1:45 pm, but in kindergarten she will nap around 12 pm. I know that she will probably be more tired being there than with me, but do you think it will result in her waking much earlier on morning with nap at 12 pm? I really don't want her to start waking 5-6 am in morning!

What is kindergarten where you are? For us it is public school starting at age 5. Wow, that's a huge time difference for nap time. Her routine may eventually drift since early naps can do that, but it may not be for a while since she will probably be exhausted the first week or so.  However, I would stick to the routine you have to see if she can simply switch her longer A to before bed instead of before nap. You may have to observe for a few days. It seems like she is may already be needing a longer A to bed since BT is getting pushed later (barring any other issues, like the SA we were discussing). Another thing that may happen is that she will take shorter undertired naps at 12noon, so watch out for OT and move BT earlier as needed. Does that make sense?

How long is your LO napping and how many hours sleep at night? I dunno if she is LSN.

He is basically down to 45 min nap, 10-10.5 hr nights. We avg 11hr  total sleep. 10.5-11hr total sleep for this age BEFORE nap drops is low. After they drop the nap entirely, I heard total sleep could increase. Fingers crossed!!! =P

[NinNic]

Hi,

Hope jet lag is going well now!

Yes I meant being at the beach. So I guess best offering longer nap when really exhausted.

In that case its probably more like day care/preschool. Hmm it will be interesting to see if she will fall asleep at all at daycare at 12 pm. Im thinking of maybe picking her just before usual nap time so she can nap at home her usual nap time. Just cant see her doing short am as she seems to have had long am for such long time now. Dont want her to start waking early in morning cause of early nap in daycare! What would you have done? I know that if she wont sleep around 12 pm with other kids they will simply not let her nap at all which might be even worse.

Hmm that is not a lot of sleep for your LO. Not far off mine. She was doing around 11 hrs at night now down to around 10.5 hrs. Nap was 1.25 hrs. When I put her down for nap at 1:30 pm she falls asleep 1:50/1:55 pm (before was 1:45 pm), I still wake her at 3 pm. BT at 7:50 pm sometimes 8 pm and still falls asleep 8:30 pm, past 2 nights bit later than that. Im thinking nap for 1 hr, but seems even with around 1 hr nap takes long to settle for BT. What do you think? Im waking her at 7:15 am so she falls asleep for nap or should I let her sleep bit more so closer to 11 hr sleep at night. Feel that will maybe just push day later and BT?

[ginger428]

Yes we are fully adjusted and caught up on rest, thanks!

When do you pick her up? If it was DS, I would tell them to offer the noon rest time, even if they don't sleep.  Offer a few books or something on the cot.  Then get out 30-60 mins later depending on how they are. Then I would do early bedtime until they adjust to no nap. I bet every couple days or so, they would nap at that time.

Interestingly, our days used to look like this-
WU 6:30
Nap 1-2:30ish
Bedtime 8:30

But now it's
WU 7:30
Nap 1-1:30/1:45
Bedtime 9:00

And he'll ask to sleep at naptime sometimes. Not sure what happened exactly to get the later wake ups as we were at 6am forever. Probably shortening the naps over a long time? Looks like he has redistributed his sleep. 9:00 is way too late for me though... But not sure he's ready to drop the nap to make bedtime earlier.

Yeah, she might be slightly OT with the SA before.  I'd try waking a tad later, 7:30 With same nap and bedtime. Maybe keep that for a few days to see if it makes a difference. Let me know!

[NinNic]

Hi

Thanks for advice! 

I think its too early to drop nap for her, dont you think? They do have quiet time when they dont fall asleep. She hasnt started yet at day care but was thinking of picking her up around 3 pm, but if she would nap at home it would have to pick up around 1:30 pm. How early would early BT be with no nap?

Does your LO go to day care? Maybe she will be tired around noon as its much more intense compared to being with me. It is long A til BT though with nap at noon.

Would you do nap time around same time as she used to do home over weekends if she naps earlier at day care Monday to Friday?

SA got better a while ago. LO has a cold at mo with some coughing which might also make her bit OT.
Yes will follow your advice and let you know. 

[ginger428]

Yes, average age to drop nap is 3/4 so it is early. But my LO dropped all his naps early.
1:30 pick up sounds good.
Early bedtime without nap for us is around 11-12 hrs after wake up. So with WU 7:00 BT is arpund 6:30.

DS is home with me. I agree it's a long A to bed after a noon nap so you'll have to observe for tiredness and possibly put to bed 15-30min early the first few days.

I'm not sure about what I would about naps on weekends, honestly. Would depend a lot on how his week went.

Aw, hope she feels better soon!

[NinNic]

Hi 

Thanks for your last post. 

I wake LO at 7:30 am if she doesn't wake earlier herself as you advised. She naps around 1:45/bit later-3 pm and has been falling asleep around 8:30-8:50 pm, once or twice around 8:20 pm. BT is around 7:50 pm. I do think she is tired when put her to bed, just takes her quite long to settle. I do feel she is developing a lot with her speech at moment so maybe that is what is making her fall asleep later? I guess I should just keep with this routine, what do you think? She is usually grumpy for a while when I wake her from her nap then she is ok, but I don't feel she needs a longer nap.

We are going away for a while to Spain. My DH will be working so it's not a holiday only. We still want to keep LO's routine best as we can. Of course with some outings where she will have to sleep in stroller/car (usually she is not used to car and only naps max around 40 mins in stroller). In Spain dinner time is late and sometimes we would like to have dinner outside later than usual, which means later BT for LO. What is your advice on this? Let her sleep longer nap (if she does) so she can stay up later or try to get her to sleep in stroller (not sure if she would stay asleep in stroller as haven't tried it before for evening)? We would maybe get home 10/10:30 pm I think.

[ginger428]

Hi there!
I think your routine looks good. It very well may be a development blip... Think we're in the middle of a language one, too, or something.

As for holiday/working vacation, do the best that you can. On days you know you will be out late, I would allow her to nap longer as opposed to waking up later in the morning. Hopefully this way, she'll keep her wake up and nap times (even on the go) and just occasionally have a later bedtime... But one she can make up for with a longer nap. Just my opinion though. Overall, enjoy your time and be patient and flexible.