11 months old teaching Independent sleep

[Sorbai]

My baby is almost 11 months old. About a month ago I stopped nursing when she started taking a bottle, but ended up rocking/holding/patting/back rubbing her to sleep. New baby coming In june so gotta get her putting herself to sleep.smoothly and easily.

New technique: winddown in room, hold and offer bottle, when she is done or gets wiggly, I put her in crib and if she cries I mantra "its ok, your just going to sleep" until she stops crying, then I've been sitting in her room but have found that when I am in there she Is either relaxing or playing (she loves standing in her crib) and if I walk out she Immediately cries. So I was sitting in her room for 5.min, walk out, she cries, come back in and do mantra/ lay her down and offer Bottle (she doesn't always drink enough before I put her in crib and often wants later on if not sleeping yet), again sit in room and if not crying for 5 min I walk out again and repeat. Some days she has fallen asleep within 15 min, some days it takes up to an hr! And then we run into issues with a second nap because it gets too late! She usually sleep 1.5 hr nap and I would cut down second nap even shorter than 45 min but she will not go to sleep any earlier for the night if I cut down second nap.

Right now I have kind of gone cold Turkey to 1 nap and try to put her to sleep 11 hrs after morning wake up but I don't know if that's best course of action. So confused with what her awake time should be, if she is ot or ut, why does she sometimes fall asleep so fast and sometimes take forever, etc etc!

We were at a ~3 hr 15 min awake time but I'm not sure that is right anymore. I've been working towards a 4 hr awake time, meaning she is In bed by 4 hrs, but then can still sometimes take an hr to fall asleep! But if I put her down earloer or later there is no guarantee she Will fall asleep smoother or faster.

Confused!

 Yesterday:
915 wake up
1245 in bed
145 fell asleep
325 woke up
830 in bed
915 fell asleep

Today:
10am wake up
2 pm in bed
3 pm fell asleep
4.30 wake up
9.20 pm in bed (later than planned...)
10 pm fell asleep

I meant to get her in bed by 9 latest but we came home late....
She has been waking up abt 2 x in the night, which is fine for now.
Her wake times are totally all.over the place right now, I am.so confused!!!!

[jessmum46]

Hi, ok sounds like there's quite a bit going on.  Could you tell us what her routine was before you started trying to get her to settle alone?

She is young for one nap (many have begun the transition at this age but wouldn't typically have one nap every day until an average of 15 months) and so I would suspect that the combination of that cold turkey switch and trying to learn independent sleep skills has made her overtired. 

Your technique for settling her - are you using that at all naps, BT and night wakings?  I'm wondering if it is probably a bit confusing - she won't have any concept of what 5 mins means or why you leave after that period of time.  If she's never slept alone before I'd probably suggest you expect to be in there until she goes to sleep for now, and then work on a gradual withdrawal plan to get out of the room.  Have a read of the info on PUPD (age-appropriate - so just PD) and gradual withdrawal (ignore the bit on WIWO):
How to PU/PD (inc age adaptations)
Toddlers: Walk In/Walk Out vs. The Gradual Withdrawal Method (HOW TO CHOOSE)

From the FAQs:

8 MONTHS TO A YEAR - At this age you really don’t do any pick up as babies 8 months and up tend to soothe faster in the crib. 

•   You wait for them to stand up or pull up and then you place them back down so they are looking away from you and not at your face.
•   If you feel they are truly frantic and need more you can pick them up for a moment but you put them straight back down. 
•   At this age it’s important to use your voice even more.  Your baby will start to recognize what you are saying, eg. “I’m not  leaving you, you’re not alone, it’s nap time” etc. 
•   At this age you may need to pair pu/pd with gradual leaving of the room.  First you stay in the room until asleep, then move a few feet from the crib, in a few days you move to the door, then out the door. 

What do you think?

[Sorbai]

previously i was putting her to sleep around 3 hours awake time. winddown in room w books, white noise, dark, hold and offer bottle, put down in crib and rub back - tried hard to not pick her back up, she loves to stand up in her crib so lay her back down each time, sing or talk to her if she needed.... but it was taking so long and she was just not really settling well.

i know she is young for one nap but it takes her so long to fall asleep that by the time she wakes up, her next nap would be too close to bedtime or if she would nap she would end up having a super late bedtime. for example yesterday she woke up 945, fell asleep in the car at 1245, slept til 2. tried to put her down around 515 but by 6 she still wasn't sleeping. if she did fall asleep at 6 or even 615, she would no way be sleeping by 945 (12 hrs after morning wake up), probably she wouldn't have fallen asleep til closer to 11! she did not end up napping, and i put her down 855 and she was sleeping by 910. which is a crazy long awake time but she did have a sort of quiet time in her crib from 515-6.

i am trying to use that technique for all sleeps, naps and bedtime. you said "If she's never slept alone before I'd probably suggest you expect to be in there until she goes to sleep for now, and then work on a gradual withdrawal plan to get out of the room."  the problem i find is that when i am in the room she is just playing. "You wait for them to stand up or pull up and then you place them back down so they are looking away from you and not at your face. " am i supposed to do this even when she is happy or only if she is crying? i tried to do it for her morning nap but if i just keep laying her down every time she stands up, she thinks its a game and smiles and laughs! she pretty much is only crying when i am walking out of the room or sometimes if she has been in her crib for a long enough time but mostly i winddown, offer bottle - usually by this point she is rubbing eyes and half closing them while she drinks, but then when i put her down she right away stands up and does not relax.

i feel like whatever i am trying to do is just not working and the only way to get her to settle is by me walking out of the room so that she cries! which doesn't make any sense to me. this is very frustrating.... i am also not sure what to do about her awake time. yesterday she fell asleep in the car at exactly 3 hrs, does that mean she is ready for sleep at 3 hrs or just because we were in the car? she didn't sleep quite as long as she usually does though (1 hr 15 min instead of typical 1 hr 30 min). should i be pushing for a 3.5 or 4 hr awake time? but how i can i keep the second nap with such a long awake time? or with such a long falling asleep time?

[jessmum46]

previously i was putting her to sleep around 3 hours awake time.... but it was taking so long and she was just not really settling well.

This is because 3h is an appropriate A time for a 6 month old.  She probably just wasn't tired at 3h   Most 11 month olds will be heading for around the 4h A time mark, typically with one long nap and one short one.  It's also very normal for the day to be longer than 12h at this point - often it is better to lengthen the day and hold onto 2 naps - so nearly 11pm BT if she isn't up in the morning until 9.45am is actually not unreasonable). 

Just to illustrate - with a 9am WU and 4h A time...(long am, short pm routine)

WU 9am
Nap 1-2.30pm
Nap 6.30-7/7.15 (wake from this nap to preserve a sensible bedtime - you'd have to experiment with the length)
BT 9.30

OR short am, long pm routine

WU 9am
Nap 12.30 (slightly UT)-1/1.15pm (wake her up)
Nap 3.30/4-5.30pm
BT 9.30/10pm

With the PD technique you stay in her room but ignore her unless she is crying.  So if she is standing and just looking at you, let her get on with it.  You only intervene when she needs you.  I think though if she is more tired when you try for the nap you may get less messing around   Have you considered taking the bottle out of the WD routine too?  I'm just wondering if this isn't helping and she's may be looking for the bottle to help her get sleepy?  What do you think?