Ot or ut? I just can't tell anymore :-(

[Conniesmummy]

Wow, it's been a while since I've needed help so I guess that's a good thing hey?
Lg is now 17 months and has been on 1 nap now for about 2.5 months.
She has pretty much always been a good night sleeper and napper after lots of help that is.
Even teeth and illness has never really impacted on her night sleep, so I guess I've been lucky in that respect.
My current dilemma is bedtime? Bedtime has always been around 6:30, with nap time being around 12-2 ish, sometimes 2:30, sometimes 1:45, but always over 1 hour long.
After the Christmas from hell with chicken pox and tonsillitis, our sleep seems to have gone to pot!
We have had early waking and night waking and difficulties settling to sleep at bedtime and naptime.
Our typical day can be
WU 6-7 usually 6:30 ish
Drink of milk
8-8:30 breakfast
Activity/playtime with snack around 10:00 ish
11:30-12:00 lunch
12:00-12:30 nap (had been good 2-2:30 hrs, now 1-1:30hrs)
Activity/playtime with snack around 2-3
Teatime 4:30-5:00
Quiet play after teatime, no TV or light up noisy toys, usually plays dollies or kitchen.
Supper, if not eaten much during the day or at tea time, with cup of milk, doesn't always finish milk.
Bath 6:15 ish, story on my knee for a cuddle and down in cot awake 6:30-6:45.
Lately she has been messing a lot after I have put her down. Wriggling r poo under the cot, sticking her arms and legs through the sides.
The best day we've had recently was after she spent the day with my mum as usual in Wednesday whilst I was at work. Mum knew I'd been struggling with bedtime so allowed my lg to nap 10:30-13:00!! I was a little concerned when she first told me, but bedtime went perfectly, no messing, straight to sleep.
I obviously don't want the naptime to be this time for obvious reasons in that we would become housebound!!
What I would like help with is. Should bedtime be later now she's older?
Some days she can sleep in until 7:30, not often. But I always felt this was her catching up a bit if she'd had a few rubbish sleep days that week.
I had always worked on a 12 hour day or thereabouts, but I'm now thinking we may be more a 13 ish hour day, with around 11 hours overnight sleep.
What I'm afraid of is getting stuck in an ot ut loop as it's difficult to spot sleepy signs in my busy toddler.
My gut tells me that if she has a least an hour nap around the middle of the day. This should be enough to stop her becoming ot, with a reasonable bedtime of course.
Should I bite the bullet and push bedtime later??
Thanks in advance x

[Haribo2012]

Hi there, she could be entering the 18 month SR but also a 13 hour day with a good 1.5 hour plus nap at this age is pretty normal for some.
Maybectry pushing BT by 15/30 mins see what happens x

[Conniesmummy]

Thanks for the quick response. I did think about the 18 month sr and she's cutting canines at the minute 
I think I was worried about pushing the bedtime incase it made her ot 
I think I'm going to give it a try and aim for a 13 hr day ish, depending on nap quality 

[Conniesmummy]

Just to add to my last post. Defo canines, just had a meltdown in the park this morning, hysterical till we got home, asked for medicine, then passed out for her nap at 11!!
Her sleep is a mess at the minute, but I can cope with that, the screaming is heartbreaking 

[Haribo2012]

Honestly I think the canines were the worst teething for us. Keep up the meds and see how she goes. Personally I'd rather have OT wake ups at night than UT as they are often easier to resettle x

[Conniesmummy]

Hi, I think I've just gotten too used to a child that sleeps a 12 hour night. Now think she needs less, so I'm aiming for an 11 hour night, ish. Provided we've had a half decent nap. Just sad when you've nailed sleep after such a hard slog and then it goes upside down again 
Her dad just looks at me like I'm mental. They don't get how hard us mums work at helping their kids settle and sleep etc. He just thinks I'm potty and kids just do stuff with no help or input from us   
Could be interesting this week as I'm having a couple of days away with a friend and leaving him in total charge.
He says I control things, I think I'd call it manage things, without my guidance our daughter wouldn't eat, drink or be appropriately dressed, left to his devices 
After today's meltdown and her wanting to go to bed at 11 for her nap, she only had about an hour and a half, so awake before 1. I was so confused as to when to do bedtime. She's so hard to read cos she's onto us at bedtime and will try every trick in the book to avoid bath, story and bed!
Despite being snuggly on my knee and wanting to get into her cot, she still fannied about for about 30 mins. I pushed the routine back by 15 mins, so down for 6:45. After hubby went up and tucked her back in at about 7:15, she settled off by 7:30.
Does this mean we now need a 7:30 bedtime??
Oh, she woke at about 6:45 this morning.
Besides the morning meltdown, she's been on good form today. She's played well and eaten well.
The canines are all through now so fingers crossed she will get some relief 
Thanks for your support x

[Haribo2012]

I'd see how things go for a few days (maybe after hubby had his turn  )

I used to keep BT 13 hours from WU if nap less then 1.5 hours if bring it forward 15 mins.

Your welcome I'll be going though it again with DS2 soon enough lol x

[Conniesmummy]

Ok, so far so good today.
WU 6:45
Nap 12:30 for 1 1/2 hours, in the car too which can be unheard of! I think pushing her to 12:30 helped her sleep better, she was pooped. The little minx was trying to nod off on our way out at about 10:15 ish. I was mean and opened the car window and said 'ooh, Billy wind is blowing today'  that worked.
We did quiet time from 6pm, against her will lol. Bath at 6:30 and in bed for 6:50. She was quiet and I was scared to check on the monitor incase she was faffing about, but hey presto, she was settled and sleeping 
Let's see how it goes in my absence 

[Haribo2012]

Sounds good I have my fingers crossed. I'll remember the wind trick lol x

[Conniesmummy]

Well, we have had a good week, until tonight! Daycare failed to log how long her nap was and she had slept in until 7:15 this morning. I went slightly later for bedtime routine, but failed epically 
Down for 7 ish, but I knew this was too early, consequently faffing an hour later.
Hey ho, tomorrow is another day lol 

[Haribo2012]

Lol well 1 day out of 7 isn't bad x

[Conniesmummy]

Now into day 2!!
Woke at stupid early o'clock. Grumpy morning, refused lunch, early nap, crying after 45 mins!! I'm loving life right now 

[Haribo2012]

Oh no, 45 mins is mostly UT. How's your pm been,?

[Conniesmummy]

Had a screaming fit cos I woke her after 2 hours nap (she re settled herself after her 45 min whinge!) and threw up everywhere!
Mum was babysitting in the evening cos she perked up after being sick and we had tickets we couldn't refund.
Turns out, as mum had picked her up from nursery Friday, nursery had allowed her to have a 3 hour nap!!! Never heard of!!! Explains fully why she wasn't blummin tired Friday night!!!
Bed by 7 last night and just awake now, so hoping for a better day today! 🙈 x

[Haribo2012]

My word 3 hours that's a long nap.

Good night though and hope you enjoyed your evening of freedom x