5 month old catnapping - over or under tired??

[violagal]

Hi all,

My DD is 23 weeks old. She is formula fed taking 4 bottles a day at 7/11/2.30/6.30 and also taking 3 x meals of pureed solids a day approx an hour after the first 3 bottles.

She used to sleep very well in the day taking naps of around 2 hours which stopped abruptly just before 4 months and went to several naps of 45 minutes. I went with it as wasn't affecting her night sleep (she happily sleeps 11-12 hours at night).

However for the last week or so she will do a 45 minute nap in the morning after approx 2-2.5 hours. She wakes up from this completely happy, giggling away and flapping in her cot so there's no getting her back to sleep. Then between around lunch time and 3pm she will catnap on and off - I tried to note it down today but some of the naps are 20m and even 10m (and I have her two brothers at home 5 days a week). However once she gets to about 3.30/4pm she is then awake until bedtime which is around 7-7.30pm.

Her night sleep is now affected - whether it be the naps, or solids or the fact she's rolling around a lot - she will wake about 5.30/6am and flap about in her cot and doze off and then this repeats 2 or 3 times until she finally wakes up about 7 sometimes 730. The result of this is that she is so tired in the morning that she goes down for her first nap after about 1.5hours and I can't really fathom where her actual wake up time is!
Any advice??

Thanks...

[violagal]

I managed to get times down today...

WU 720
E 740 8oz formula
E 9 solids
A 2 hrs
S 920-10
E 1045 8oz formula
A 1hr 30m
S 1130-1202
E 1215 solids
A 1hr 13m
S 1315-1350
E 1445 8oz formula
A 1hr 55m
S 1545-1625
E 1700 solids
E 1830 9oz formula
Bed 1915

This is pretty usual in that the sleeps in the middle of the day seem to cluster together with short A times but we got a long stretch before bed and always a 45m nap in the morning.

Any ideas??
Thanks...

[Haribo2012]

Hi there, I think you need to extend that first A, lots of LO this age are getting ready to go to 2 long naps, so I'd prob try and extend that first A a little as 45 min naps are UT mainly. Average awake time is 2.5 hours, but of course does depend on each child.
This is the guide to Awake times
 https://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=84884.msg755322#msg755322
https://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=246541.msg2636699#msg2636699

[violagal]

Hi thank you for your reply! I have been trying to do that the last couple of mornings but to be honest she is so ready to go down by this point (lots of rubbing eyes and getting grousy) that I've not pushed it perhaps as much as I could - and also when she's been dozing on an off early morning she is just shattered. But will try again over the next few days
So is it normal then if the first nap is undertired that the second A time will be shorter and so on leading to this middle of the day catnap cluster that we're having??

[Haribo2012]

You can get yourself in a bit of an OT/UT look if that makes sense?. I'd just try pushing 10/15 mins by doing extra story or little walk round the garden just to extend things x

[violagal]

So the last two days I've managed to keep her awake until 2hrs15 but both times the nap has been 30m so I guess that means overtired - should I keep try the 2hrs15 for another couple of days or reduce? Also if she's had a 30m nap what sort of proportion of A time would be appropriate until the next nap?
She is definitely stuck in a loop poor thing!

[Haribo2012]

Can you rock her back to sleep? I'd prob reduce by 5/10 mins then see what happens. If you get short nap then reduce A time by 30 mins x

[violagal]

Hi again, still no long naps
She's in no mood to go back to sleep when she wakes up - she usually starts giggling or squealing when she sees me come into the room! She usually gets to about 2h15-2hr20 now but still the nap is either 45m or 30m - she gets very very fussy around the 1hr45 mark but then gets a second wind and is fine until she starts rubbing her eyes and dropping her head and then she is asleep literally two minutes after she lays down in the cot.
However after this short morning nap she can do another 2 hours or so so I'm now not sure whether she needs a longer first A time actually?
The cycle then continues all day and the naps get shorter and shorter. This afternoon she woke after a 40m nap at 2:50pm. She crashed out at 5pm and woke 5.20pm and was in bed by 7.30pm.
She is 24.5 weeks now and eating a lot - this morning she'd had a bottle, a full portion of baby porridge, filled her nappy and was obviously tired so thought surely that would lead to a nice long nap - it would me!!
Any other advice???

[Haribo2012]

Hi I'd prob say try to push towards 2.5 A time, sleepy signs start to become unreliable as they get older, a yawn can mean boredom, thirst, hunger etc.

I think the 30 min nap with 2 hour A after would mean she can handle a longer A time and if she's waking chatting and happy I'd guess UT.

Is she self settling to sleep? Could you try and help through the sleep cycle transition at nip in at the 30 min mark place a hand on or do light patting that when she stirs she might just go through to next cycle (of course if UT this won't work) xx

[violagal]

So....we got a long nap today! And we got two morning naps close together...so something is shifting for sure. Can you help me make sense of it? The day was:

WU 6.10. Brought into bed and she dozed on and off until 6.45
E 7am Bottle 6oz
E 815 Baby porridge
S 850-925
S 1015-11 - she was fussy right before this nap and I thought it was wind or something else then she crashed out in my arms!
E 11am bottle 7oz
E 1215 solids + yoghurt
S 110-140
S 215 - 335!! Longest nap in weeks!
E 340 bottle 5oz
S 415 solids
Bath 545.
E 620 bottle 6oz
S 7

 I put her down for the night at 630 as thought she'd be waaay overtired after 3 hours awake but she just played in her cot whilst her brothers had stories and finally crashed out at 7pm - that's like just under 3.5A time?? I think she definitely copes with the longer A time in the afternoon.

How do I replicate this??

[Haribo2012]

So what happened in the 30 mins between naps? I still think it at first nap x

[violagal]

Sorry don't quite understand - what do you think at first nap? So between naps she's awake alert, happy and then all of a sudden gets very fussy and eyes start going - like she's remembered she should still be asleep!!

[Haribo2012]

I meant UT silly phone. I'd say she needs longer A time so when she briefly wakes she's not thinking she's ready to go x