27 Months Old & Won't Nap

[kristeno]

We need help bad! Our LO is 27 months old, sleeps in toddler bed. We had been putting her to sleep by laying with her every nap & every bedtime, but she's been waking 1-4 times a night. We know it's probably because she won't put herself to sleep, so she needs us when she wakes.

We got some advice from a friend to get her to gradually sleep on her own: start sitting next to the bed, sitting in chair, a little further away, in the doorway, etc. The first day went great & now, she hasn't napped in almost a week & it still takes 1-2 hours to get her in bed at night. She's not threatened by discipline, so when she gets out of bed, she doesn't stop. Nothing works. She stands up in bed, jumps out of bed, rolls around. We used to get her to sleep in 15-30 min if we laid with her, now we try for hours with no success.

This is what we've got going:

WU: 8/830
N: Try for 2 hours 130-330ish
BT: 7, because of no nap & still takes 1+ hour
Wakes around 1 & 4, minimum

Ideally:

WU: 730/8
N: 1230/1-330
BT: 730/8
Sleeps through the night

What do we do?! She's not threatened by discipline with spankings or timeouts, so far. Any advice would be helpful.

[Haribo2012]

Hi there, I really don’t think that time out or spanking is appropriate when it comes to sleep training. It’s most likely that she just needs to learn to go to sleep alone and the taking ages when you do gradual withdrawal is a case of the strongest will wins. You need to be consistent and don’t change to laying there again.

Personally nap wise I wouldn’t try for 2 hours it’s soul destroying fur everyone, I’d do a strategic walk or drive about 2pm and let her have 45 mins then do BT 12 hours from morning WU.

It is a common age for naps to start to go or reduce so that’s something to consider maybe happening.

How is her mood with no nap?

[jessmum46]

I agree, I have generally found that having a good hard look at why the issues are there in the first place often leads to solutions   Children can appear very willful at times and can really test us!  But it's rarely simple 'discipline' that is causing sleep issues.  The most common culprits are wrong routine, lack of independent sleep skills, and (our) inconsistency. 

So thinking about those - routine-wise I think (honestly) the planned routine is probably unrealistic.  You're aiming for a 2.5-3h nap with a 12h night which is just too much sleep for this age I think - expect perhaps for the highest of high sleep needs LOs which it doesn't sound like you've got!  I would aim more realistically for something like WU 7.30/8, nap 2ish for 1.5h max, BT 8/8.30.    A 13h day is very common at this point and aiming for a 12h night when your LO just can't do it can be very demoralising - I've been there!!  But if you think she is capable then as Zoe suggested above a quick 45 mins car nap and 12h day may work well.  Even if she skips her naps though I would shoot for only 30-60 mins early bedtime.  We were well into nap-dropping at this age with my DD (lower sleep needs but not super-low) and all finished with naps by 29 months. 

Sleep-skills wise, have you ever been able to put her in bed awake, leave the room and she settle herself off to sleep?  If not then a period of gradual withdrawal may be very helpful - https://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=80750.0 (please ignore the info on WIWO unless your LO has slept independently before). 

In terms of consistency, the fact that you have tried lots of things is not surprising, you are probably shattered! but what she needs is one predictable clear message that does not change however long she messes around for.  Like Zoe said it's a case of strongest will wins - and that needs to be you   So we can support you a bit more could you give us an idea of what goes on from the time you put her in bed to when she eventually goes to sleep?  What she does, what you do etc?

((hugs))

[kristeno]

Thank you, this is all good information! Without a nap, her mood is mild, but not great. She's kind of cranky & tired. But she's a very content kid, so she's not impossible.

When we try to get her down, she rolls around her bed, talks to us, stands up, jumps off her bed, lays on her back to stick her feet up the wall, tries to sit in our lap & more. We let her hold our hand to fall asleep, but she only cares to do that when/if she's finally given in to sleep. When we put her down, we do our routine, which is reading a Bible story in her bed & then she lays down while we sing a song. Then we tell her "Okay, I'm going to sit next to you until you fall asleep. If you get out of bed, you will get a spanking." Then when she's acting like she's going to get out of bed, we remind her. When she does, she gets a spanking & put back in bed. We do our best to keep completely calm, so we're not reacting.

I'm really starting to think she's just not tired at naptime. However, if she doesn't already have them, while we try to get her down, she develops dark circles under her eyes & they get heavy. It feels like she needs a rework of her routine, but I don't know where to start.

I feel like with the will issue, letting her just get up after 45 minutes, it feels like I've given in & let her win. That's why we've always just waited out the time she should be napping.

[Haribo2012]

Hi there I’d probably try removing myself from the room, spanking her is still engaging in a battle and if she’s not tired enough she won’t lay down and go to sleep nicely.

It’s not letting her win after 45 mins of sleep it’s you controlling the sleep needs, personally at this age I gave up on bed naps as DS1 just wouldn’t sleep there, I certainly wasn’t getting into a battle for a quick nap so just changed things round for a while, we got down to 20 mins  CN to avoid OT before nap completely went.
As Katherine already mentioned the sleep you are wanting is prob unrealistic at this age, if my first DS had a 2.5 hour nap at that age he’d of been on a 15 hour day!

Less day sleep and her learning to self settle will help bedtime become a nice time for all. Do you have cuddles and stories prior to bed?x

[*Ali*]

Maybe think of it this way; if you got in bed but weren't tired enough to sleep so got up again, would your husband hitting you help? I doubt it. That's why it isn't helping your DD. Please reconsider your approach here.

Tracy was vehemently opposed to physical chastisement as BWing is all about respecting your child.

 I agree with pps that your expectations of a 2.5-3hr nap are complete unrealistic. Many kids have completely dropped the nap by 2.5yo. Maybe try a later nap after a longer winddown.