13 wks and waking at midnight

[Claire Marie's mommy]

This is my first post and I have so many questions!  My lo is 13 wks old and goes down for bed at about 8 pm. We do not dreamfeed.  She used to sleep until around 1 or 2 am.  At this first waking, I would give her the paci and she would fall back to sleep until around 3 or 4 am when she woke for a feed ( I know this a long time).  Then she would usually sleep until 5:30 or 6 am, when I would feed again and put back down until 7 or 8 am.  At this time we would start our day.  About 2-3 wks ago, she began waking between 12 and 1 am and NOT taking the paci.  I figured it was the 3mo growth spurt and fed her the first night (couldn't put her back down hungry) and then tried to get in an extra feed during the day.  We are breastfeedign. Since then, things have been pretty erratic.  She is still waking early, sometimes as early as 11 or not until 1:30.  Could she still be going through the growth spurt?!  Should I feed her if she wakes this early or is that reinforcing the wake?She is pretty difficult to settle.  Any advice would be helpful.  Thanks

[Onewoman]

Yes it's confusing!! :roll: I am having the same problem - see my post Everything's Changed - in Breastfeeding Forum. Maybe we can sort this one out together??!!

[rachelle]

I think it could very well be a growth spurt.  With both of my girls, at growth spurt time, in order to increase my supply, I had to feed ever 2 hours during the day.  I would try to do that one day and see if it helps.


Also, she could be getting ready to roll over or if she's rolling over already, that could be it.  Even if she's not rolling over in her sleep, it could still keep her awake.  They tend to get this urge just to move.  I found a good, tight swaddle to be VERY important and useful during this time!

HTH

[Claire Marie's mommy]

Thanks so much for the quick replies.  She could be getting ready to turn over.  She hasn't yet, even during the day, but last night she was really moving and nearly spun herself around in the crib.  She is swaddled in a Cozy Cocoon.  It's like a sock made out of stretchy cotton.  She can still move, but it keeps her limbs from getting out of control.  I leave one arm out, as she has begun to suck on her fingers and is sometimes able to resettle.  Other times I think it keeps her awake because she can't quite get the thumb. 
I'm going to try feeding every 2 hours  during the day to see if that satisfies her.  If she continues to wake at 12, 3 and 5,  should I try to drop the first feed, making her first stretch 6 to 7 hours? Or should I try to drop the middle, giving her 2 stretches of about 4 hours?

Ruby's mommy:  I'm sorry that you are having the same problems, but it is nice to know that I'm not alone!  Have you moved to a four hour schedule yet?  If so, has it helped.  My DD is a short napper also.  Usually 45 minutes, but sometimes she surprises me with 90 min!

[Onewoman]

As feeding more in the day didn't help (she just won't take anything at 2.5 hrs), I am trying to move the feeds further apart - trying for 3 1/4 - 3 1/2. I will let you know how it goes! :lol: LAst night was the same: had her last daytime feed at around 5.30 - 6.15, woke up 10.15, 1.30, 4.00 and 6.15. It's the same pattern she had as a newborn! The last time I tried giving her more at the 10 pm feed she still woke up 3 hours later! SO still not sure what to do. I did read another post on growth spurts at this age and one mum said it lasted 2 weeks, so I think I will just go with it.

I'm sure it's not a sleep issue as Ruby can get to sleep on her own and settle herself, as I often hear her doing about 9 pm. Also, she is crying when she wakes at night (which she doesn't do in the day) and as soon as I pick her up she's rooting like mad - there is no way I can hold her off!

I wondering about cluster feeding in the afternoon/early evening? If she will take it that is  :shock: Had some success yesterday with extending naps using shhh pat & pu/pd. One nap was 2 hrs! So I think what's working best for us is moving towards 4 hr routine as long as I can get her to keep napping longer. Also, I wonder if she will ever take more than one boobful?? :? She just doesn't seem interested in more, although last night I fed her at 5.30 (10 mins = 1 boob) and then at 6.15 she had another 5 mins. It made me wonder whether to try the same thing at her other feeds?? Hmmm, complicated :?

Let me know how things go, and if you find  anything that works - could do with some sleep!!

[Claire Marie's mommy]

Last night wasn't so bad.  She didn't wake until 2am!   I cluster fed her at 4:30, 6:00, and then again at 7:40.  I think I filled her up pretty good, but I had to change diaper,  she was soaked through.  She also seemed a bit gassy and uncomfortable.  After her 2am, she woke at 3:45 soaking wet.  I had to change her nighty which really got her going.  By then it was 4 and I decided to feed to calm her down.  Probably shouldn't have done that, but she took a full feed and then slept through until 7:30.  How do you handle the wakings?  When are you feeding and when are you doing pat/sh or anything else?  I'm not sure when to feed and when not to.  She also roots like crazy anytime she wakes in the night!
      As for taking more than 10 min on the breast, my lo has to burp really good after about 5 min.  then she's able to take more.  Sometimes, if she's slow on one side, I switch to the other (one boob is more productive than the other).  She seems to like the faster flow and will eat more.  Also, when she's finished, do you see some milk on her lips or dribbling down her chin?  When I see this, I know my babe is done.

[Onewoman]

I haven't been handling the wakings very well at all! I think what has happened is initially it was a growth spurt as she ate well every 3 hours in the night, but now she is just used to waking up. Tonight I am going to be tough and do pu/pd when she wakes at 10 pm and see how it goes from there. She used to go about 7/8 hours before needing feeding so that was from 6.30 - 2 ish, then she would have her feed and wake up about 6.15 am. So Tonight I will do pu/pd til 1am at least if she wakes as I know she can go that long without food. I am trying switching breasts but she's not interested, so am trying what I mentioned before and trying to get more in her that way!

You fix one thing then another problem  :shock: I have managed to get 45 min naps to good 1 - 2 hours, well yesterday anyway!

Well done on getting a reasonable nights sleep! I hope it continues!

Susana x

[Onewoman]

JUst to let you know I told dh and dd to sleep downstairs if they wanted as I thought Ruby would cry a lot! DD did so it helped me not to feel guilty for keeping them awake.
 
I did my version of pu/pd last night at 10 pm and it took 50 minutes to get her back off to sleep. I nearly caved in and fed her, but just remembered Tracey saying it was not fair to make them do all that crying then give in, so I kept at it. I just had to think to myself I KNOW she is not hungry as she fed well yesterday and took both boobs at bedtime. She didn't wake til 1.30, when I fed her. So she had nearly 8 hrs without food which is where we were before the growth spurt. She woke again at 4.45 and I fed her, I thought she was going to stay up as she looked so awake, but she settled herself down and went back to sleep until 6.15 which is her usual wake up time. Now she is having a nice long nap. I know Tracey says pu/pd is not magic - but I disagree! 


Glad things are making progress for you too Claire's Mommy :lol:

[Claire Marie's mommy]

Wow! Congratulations on sticking it out.  I think that is part of my problem.  She wiggles and squirms so much that I begin to convince myself that maybe she IS  hungry.   I know better, but I'm so tired, its hard to think straight.  Would you mind describing your version of PU/PD?   I wasn't sure if I should try it or  not yet, but I think our girls are very close in age.   We have been doing pat/sh.  Last night she was up at midnight, 3, 3:30, 4:00 and 5!  I did pat/sh, but I have to pick her up to do it!  This was all after 2 really good nights!  I'm sure the growth spurt must be over.  Soon we'll be on to another. 

Again congratulations and here's to better sleep for all of us!

Jessica

[Onewoman]

Initially I tried a combination of pat/shh and pick up/put down. This seemed to work pretty well. Trying to think back now to what I actually did??  Well, first off I always take her up athe first sign of tiredness, which is about 1.5 hrs after she has woken up; shut the curtains, swaddle with one arm out (she starts to cry here as she knows she is going to sleep!) I put her up against my chest and pat/shh until she is breathing deeply but not asleep or until she starts to arch and wriggle. Then I put her down on her side and pat her bum and do a little shhing if she needs it, if she settles quickly I just put my hand on her for a minute, then go. I try to keep her in the crib to soothe her, often times she finds her thumb or I put it in her mouth (she normally goes to sleep here). If she is unsettled or overtired and starts crying even with me soothing her in the crib, I pick her up and do a little more patting until she relaxes again or wriggles. Then put her down again and do the same and just keep going with the same pattern until she falls asleep. At first it took quite a few goes, but now I can generally soothe her in the crib if she cries. That was the first goal! It took about 2/3 days til I could just leave her in the crib. I think she is so used to going to sleep in the crib now instead of on me she settles pretty quickly. The other thing I did fin the beginning was when she was settled in the crib, but not asleep I would stay out of sight in the room so if she started crying again I could go back to her easily (and if she went to sleep sneak out of the room!), always starting with trying to settle in the crib. I generally don't shush now, just pat unless she is really upset.

She finds her thumb most times now at 15 weeks, but some days it's like she's just forgotton about it!
 Sorry gotta go she's crying!

[Claire Marie's mommy]

Susana,  Just wondering how your nights have been going.  Are you still having to do PU/PD or has she begun to sleep through? Thank you for describing your version of PU/PD.  I'm going to give it a try!
Jessica