9 month old with early morning wakings

[Mom to Molly]

Hi,

I'm struggling with early mornings and I'm not sure what to try.  DD started waking between 5 and 5:30am two or three weeks ago.  I eliminated her third nap and moved her bedtime from 7:30 to 7 and for about a week she was waking between 6 and 6:30 which was wonderful.   After about a week of that she re-started the early 5-5:30am wake-ups.  I don't know whether I should put her to bed earlier or later.  I hesitate to put her to bed later because with the elimination of the third nap she is exhausted by 7.  I'm worried about putting her to bed earlier because she may start waking before 5am.

I've tried re-settling dd when she wakes early, but she cries and cries.  I bf her and sometimes she almost goes back to sleep, but when I put her back in the crib she wakes up and cries.  Her morning nap has been longer than usual lately (2-2:15hrs) which I think is because she isn't getting quite enough sleep at night.  I would love for her to get one more hour of sleep in the morning and then have a shorter first nap.  I don't think she is waking in the morning out of hunger because I'm already bfing her a couple of times at night.  (Even at 9 months she isn't that into solid foods so I think she may need the night feedings.)

I've thought of trying wake to sleep, but I'm often bfing her 1-2 hours before her wake-up anyway, so I don't know if it would work.

Here is her schedule more or less.


5-5:30 wake, try to bf back to sleep
7breakfast
9am Nap (sometimes she doesn't make it until 9am)
11am up, bf
Noon-lunch
1:30 or 2 Nap (varies 45 minutes to 1.5 hours)
5:45 dinner
6:30 bath
7-7:15 bed
Night bfeeding sometime between 10pm and 1am
Another night bfeeding around 3 or 4 

I'd appreciate any advice.  What should I try?  Do I just have to accept that my dd is an early-bird?
Thanks,
allison

[JoC]

Hi,

I was bf till 5 months and I think it is difficult to know if they are getting enough food, so I too was bf 2-4 times a night. My ds is on formula now, so I know how much he has eaten. I started to df at 6 months as I was still getting up in the night, after a sleepless night of pu/pd, the next night he slept through. He too wakes at 5-5.30 some mornings, I leave him to stir and he generally puts himself back to sleep. If he starts to howl I go in and many times he needs his nappy changing, but if not I give him water and he will go back off to sleep. You may want to try not feeding lo, if you feel confident she has eaten enough. M ds was 6 months before taking solids, I gave him jars for a few days on the advice of a friend, which he ate verociously! Now he eats all my food.

[teezee]

i would definately limit the am nap as she is most definately making up for night sleep with this. try waking lo after say an hour or so, as this 'should' be the shortest nap of the day..seen as an extension of night sleep.  my lo has spurts of waking early and being ready to start the day also, and it more times than not means i need to tweak her routine ie she's getting too much day sleep (robbing peter to pay paul kwim?). also, so lo doesn't get overtired b/c of the shorter nap bringing routine earlier a bit (i would think anyway), you may want to for a couple days put her to bed a little bit earlier...if lo is overtired before bed - or at all during the day - it can give you a whole new set of problems to deal with.

even though your lo isn't necessarily getting alot of solids - it's good enough for her right now.i really think at this stage she can get all the nutrients she needs during the day. if you don't mind the wakings, then keep sticking with feeding at night, but there are ways to wean her off of them that won't really disrupt her (she will barely notice as it's a gradual process). anyway, if you are interested let me know and i will post a link for you.

good luck! let me know how you are doing.

[Mom to Molly]

Thank you for the advice!  I'm so sleepy that it hadn't occurred to me to wake her from her morning nap.

Yesterday (before I checked your response) dd had two long naps and I thought it was a chance to put her to bed a little later.  I was aiming for 7:45, but got her to bed at 8pm.  She went down fine, was up twice to eat and got up at 6:20am, which was wonderful.  Since she got the same total amount of sleep she has been getting I expected a long nap this morning and was prepared to wake her after an hour.  She ended up only sleeping for 45 minutes.  She woke up happy though.  Maybe her afternoon nap will be longer.  I don't know whether to stick with the late bedtime for tonight.  Maybe I should split the difference and aim for 7:30?  What do you think?

And yes, I'm interested in phasing out the night feedings.  After nine months I am really tired.  I don't think it will be easy though.  My concerns are that if I try to end a feeding before she is back asleep she'll get really upset and have a very difficult time going back to sleep.  Even when she has a full feeding she sometimes wakes up as I put her in the crib and she cries and has a tough time (30-45 minutes) going back to sleep.   For naps ans bedtime she goes to sleep on her own, so I'm not sure why she gets to upset at night when nursing doesn't put her back to sleep.  My other concern is that my milk supply will decrease.  Did you end night feedings without a drop in milk supply?

Thanks for the help!

[teezee]

def move slowly with whatever you do - the 8pm bedtime could just be a fluke...you don't want to wait to have an overtired lo to find out kwim? i would def go with 7:30 and see how that goes.

my supply is so up and down..having my period back and everything... . maybe just pump once before you go to bed to keep it up??  do you use a paci? i know when i was weaning the night feeds my dd was a little angry when i wouldn't let her 'comfort feed' and took her off early but i would pop the paci in and shh her til she fell back to sleep. i was terribly worried that the paci would become a prop and she would wake for it to go back to sleep but it didn't once she stopped waking for the feedings. i will post the link - another thing that i wanted to add was that after i had finished the weaning if she woke i would try to pat or shh or whatever and if that didn't calm her down i would have water near by (she prefers a straw) and would give her a drink of that and it often did the trick and she would go right back to sleep.  now except for the teething (and sleeping very lightly b/c of it grrrr...) she doesn't wake and if she does (i think it is more of a phantom cry than a waking though) she puts herself right back to sleep. here is the link and good luck with your efforts...and i can't stress enough to stay consistant even if you don't see results immediately - i know how easy it is to just offer more milk in the middle of the night in an effor to calm lo down, but it will be worth it in the end!

https://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=46907.0

[Mom to Molly]

Thanks for the advice!

Molly went to bed at 7:35 tonight and I'm really hoping she gets up for the day some time after 6am.

I read the night-weaning thread and I think I'm going to give it a try.  The system seems a little trickier for the bf moms.  I don't have a clock or watch in her room, so I need to pick one up tomorrow.  I think she'll be pretty upset when I end the bf a bit early.  I'm nervous about trying this, but I guess I don't have much to lose. 

Molly does use a pacifier, but it only helps her settle sometimes.  I'll try giving it to her after I end the feeding.

I'm off to bed... it may be a long night. 

[Mom to Molly]

This morning was rough.  Molly was up at 4:50am.  I had fed her at 3:50 so I know she wasn't hungry.  I tried to get her back to sleep by patting and 4 different times I thought she was out and literally just as I got into my bed she would start to cry.  I let her fuss for a couple minutes to see if she would resettle as she seemed to be tired, but no luck.  At 6am I gave up and got her up.  I'm pretty discouraged.

I just put her down for a nap and plan to get her up in a little over an hour (assuming this isn't a 45 minute nap).

As for decreasing the night feedings....  She pulled off early on her own both times I fed her.  Tonight I'll try to pull her off earlier.

[KellyC]

Hi Mom to Molly

Just wanted to let you know that you're not alone with trying to wean the nights feeds in this way.  Last night I only let Zander feed until the strong sucking stopped and it was 8 minutes (new clock installed in his room too!) so for the next couple of nights I'm going to limit it to 7 minutes and see how we get on.  If you're struggling to get her down after the feed and want some advice on how to use PU/PD feel free to come and see us on the PU/PD board!

Good luck
Kelly x

[Mom to Molly]

Thanks Kelly.  Good luck to you and Zander with the 7 minute feeds.  I look forward to hearing of your progress.

I have my clock ready for tonight, and I will check in with the PU/PD board if she won't go back down after the abbreviated bf.

My fingers are crossed for all four of us!

allison

[KellyC]

Thanks Allison.  I stuck to the 7 minute feed but it took an hour to get him down afterwards    He wasn't hungry though as he slept until 8 and didn't take much of a feed when he woke.  Little monkey 

[Mom to Molly]

Kelly- Good for you for sticking to the 7 minute feed.  Sorry to hear that it led to an hour of sleeplessness.  Hopefully the next night will be easier.

My highest priority is still trying to get Molly to sleep in later.  Last night Molly went down at 7:40, I fed her twice in the night and then she got up at 5:35am.  I tried to get her back to sleep until 6:10, but no luck.  5:35 sure beats the 4:50am from the day before, so I guess we're moving in the right direction, but I'm not sure why she slept in a little later today.  She napped for a little over 3 hours yesterday (1.25 in the morning and 2 hrs in the afternoon).  She had such an early start yesterday and I thought she needed that sleep.  Today I think I'll limit both naps to .125-1.5 hours and try to get her down around 7:20.  Is that a good plan?

Day light savings kicked in today so her 5:35 wake up became 6:35 with the time change which sounds better, but it felt the same.  Maybe this time change will help us get on a better schedule though.

Any other suggestions?

I had another false start with the night weaning.  I was able to time the first feed to get a baseline (11 minutes) but during the second feed I couldn't reach the clock (I have to touch a button for the time to light up).  I estimated the time, but I was wrong.  Today I'm off to get a hands-free clock.     I work the next three days, but I want to start this anyway.   I can't wait to sleep through the night!
allison

[KellyC]

Hi again Allison

The nap plan sounds good to me.  Zander has a maximum of 3 hours and more often than not it's closer to 2.75 hours and he's almost 7 months old so maybe slightly less daytime sleep would be good.  We dropped a bf today as Zander was all but refusing one of his feeds and he had a good 25 minute feed at bedtime which, as always, makes me hopeful - we can but hope hey?!  I'm also turning the heating off when we go to bed as the last couple of nights he's woken I've noticed the boiler (right next to his bedroom) has been kicking in and making a lot of noise, grasping at straws maybe?!  7 minutes for us again tonight, hope your regimented night feeding goes well too!

Kelly x

[Mom to Molly]

Update:

I've been limiting naps and today lo woke up at 7:20. We just turned our clocks ahead an hour so the progress isn't quite as dramatic as it looks, but I was still thrilled.  The later wake-up may well have been due to lo being up for an hour in the night.  I'm not sure what was going on.  She didn't want to nurse, wasn't particularly upset, she was just up.  I'll see tonight whether that was a fluke or if something else is going on.

I've been doing the night-weaning by limiting feeds to 7 minutes the last three days.  It has gone ok for the most part.  One time she fussed for about 25 minutes afterward, but usually she is able to go back to sleep.  One night she only got up to eat once which was a real treat because she is usually up twice.  Tonight I start the 6 minute feeds.

Kelly- how is the night weaning going for you?

allison

[KellyC]

Hi Allison, it sounds like it's all going pretty good for you, apart from being up for an hour in the night 

I only got 2 days into the night weaning and then I dropped one of Zander's daytime breastfeeds (so now he has only 3) because he wasn't taking his day feeds well and sometimes refused one of them and he's not been fed during the night for 3 nights now - hurah!!  I think it was the change to his day feeds which has resolved his night time hunger because when I started the night weaning I made a note of how many minutes a day he was feeding and it was 45 including the night feed - yesterday he fed for 61 minutes just over those 3 day feeds.  I expect reducing his night feeds helped us along the way too though.

He's not very well at the moment and has got an awful cold.  He went for his first nap at 9am and is still asleep now at 11.20am!  He screamed out after an hour and a half and I'd promised my 2 year old nephew he could help me dress him so we all went into his room and he was still asleep - didn't even stir and we weren't being quiet!  Usually I'd wake him after an hour and a half (actually there wouldn't usually be a problem with him taking a too long nap!) but as he's ill I'm leaving him and hoping the sleep will help him to recover.  He's been waking in the night because of his cold so I expect he's got some sleep to catch up on too.  He went to sleep after his breakfast and when he wakes up it will be his lunch time - that boy seems to do nothing but eat!!

Let me know how it's all going in a few days, have you noticed that she's started to eat more in the day yet?

Kelly x