Some Qs about dropping the third nap

[FreddieEden]

Hi there,

I think DS is ready to drop his third nap and I was hoping to get some advice on how to do it best.  At the moment our day looks something like this.

7 - wake and breastfeed
8 - breakfast
9 - nap 1 (either for 45 minutes or an hour and 30 minutes)
9.45/10.30 - wake
11 - breastfeed
12 - lunch
12.45/1.30 nap 2 (depends on length of nap 1 - DS will nap for 45 minutes if he had a long morning nap and 1 hour 30 if he had a short am nap)
2.15 - wake
3 - breastfeed
4.30 - tea
5.15 - put DS in his cot, he chatters to himself, sometimes turns on his music box and usually goes to sleep after about half an hour.
6.15 - wake up DS, nappy off time, bath, massage
7 - breastfeed
7.15 - bed (he lies quietly in his bed but I don't think he goes to sleep for ten or twenty minutes).

I think we need to drop nap 3 because it is getting to a point where it is very late, because DS is sometimes upset when he is woken from it (though he perks up for his bath) and because his morning A time seems to be going down (he used to do 2 and a half hours and has managed that on the occsational times when he has had a two nap day and a longer stretch at night).  I think if he did a longer stretch at night with no third nap then he might also be steered towards taking a short am nap and a long pm nap which would suit me a lot better for purely selfish reasons!

But I am worried about it because I don't think I could push his last period of A for more than four hours and I think 6 or 6.15 is just too early for bed.  I am also worried about getting in all the feeds I need.  DS has just started going through the night again after a few weeks off and it is great!  But the couple of times he has had two nap days he has been really sleepy for his last breastfeed and I worry about whether he is taking in enough milk.  I don't want to push the afternoon breastfeed any earlier than 3 because I still have this fantasty that DS might one day sleep till then!  And I don't think I can have tea any earlier than 4.30.  So, not sure how I can make sure he is both hungry enough and not too tired for his last feed.

I know it would be ideal for DS to take two longer naps but he just doesn't do it. One nap of 45 minutes and one of an hour and a half is where he is at the moment.  Generally, he is as happy and settled as he has ever been.  He is happy to lie in his cot chatting to himself when he wakes up and makes no fuss about going down for any of his sleeps.  I'm really loving being a mummy at the moment!  Sorry this is so long.  Any tips gratefully received.

Freddie

[KellyC]

Hi Freddie

I don't have any great tips but wanted to say hi - I remember you from that awful stage where every nap was 45 minutes and being a mummy wasn't so much fun as it is now!

Your day is very similar to ours in that Zander either has 1.5 hours in the morning and then 1.5 hours or 45 minutes in the afternoon or 45 minutes in the morning and 2 hours in the afternoon - I do wish he'd pick one and stick to it but I'm grateful for the good naps however they come!  He doesn't have a catnap but he was refusing to take it and that's why we stopped.  If your DS perks up after his bath would it be possible to give him his bath early, say at 5.30 when he'd usually be going for his nap?  If the bath lasted until 6.00 and he managed to hang out for another half hour you'd then have time to breastfeed him before bed at 6.45 or 7.

Kelly x

[Mom to M&M]

We just dropped the catnap about two weeks ago and have since found that now DD can happily stay awake 3.25-3.75 hours! She often gets sleepy around 2.5 but then catches a second wind and keeps going happily and now is taking longer first and second naps because of it.

I'd suggest not giving the first nap until at least 9:30 - babies of his age should be able to comfortable stay awake at least 2.5 hours, even in the morning. If he can, I'd let him sleep until 11am - but no later. Then I'd try for the second nap at 2pm and let him sleep until 3:30 or even 4 if he can. Then you can do bedtime at 7pm instead of 7:15 (or even 6:45 if necessary). Of course, you'd want to extend this all slowly - maybe 15 minutes every 3 days so he doesn't get too overtired and have too much shock to his system.

As for the feeds, we had to play around with ours also and that can be a bit jumbly - happy to let you know how our days usually go if you are interested.

[FreddieEden]

Hi,

Great to hear from you Kelly.  Glad to hear Zander is taking some long naps, even if he can't decide which ones yet!  He looks really cute now.  I saw some of your posts on the solid foods board.  It looks as if Zander is doing really well with solids.  I think if I had done baby led weaning, then Daniel would still be eating nothing but bananas and pears!  He will eat what he is given but doesn't show any real enthusiasm and likes to spend plenty of time looking round the room and sucking his thumb before he will get down to it, no matter how hungry he is.  Odd, seeing as he weighed in at 21 pounds 7 on Monday!  He must have an efficient metabolism or something.

Marisa Mom - I have been trying to get back to two and a half hours morning A time but DS does seem to fade really quickly in the morning and if I'm not careful to get him down when he starts showing tired signs there can be real tears.  Also, I'm never quite sure what time he has woken in the morning as he can lie quietly in his cot for fifteen minutes plus so I really feel I have to let him dictate what time he takes his first nap as, for all I know, he could have been awake since 6.30.  Today, I put him down at 9.15 and he didn't wake till 11.  I've put him down again at 2 so will definitely make today a 2 nap day and see how we get on.  He has done really well on a 6.30 bedtime in the past so I have no problems with that - it's just 6 which seems really too early...     I would be really interested to see how your day looks at the moment and how you are fitting the feeds in.

Thanks very much to you both.
Freddie

[KellyC]

Hi Freddie

Talk about long mealtimes - I left DH to give Zander his lunch at 1pm (almost all finger foods) and came back from the supermarket at gone 2pm to find he'd only just finished!  No problem trying to find things to fill A times in this house - just like his mummy!

Kelly x

[Mom to M&M]

Hi again - sorry for the delayed response - it was a very busy weekend! We are currently on 2 solids a day (will add in a lunch meal in another week or two) and 3.5 bottles. Our day looks roughly like this:

Wake: 6:15 am or so
Bottle: 6:45 am - about 7 ounces
Solids: 1 tbsp oatmeal w/ half ounce formula + 2.5 ounces fruit
Nap: 9am-10:30 (I wake her after 1.5 hours at this one or risk afternoon nap problems)

A: 10:30-11
Bottle: 11:15 or so - 6 ounces
A: Until 1:15
Bottle: 3-4 ounces at 1:15/1:30
Nap: 1:45-3:30/3:45

Juice/Water upon waking (will eventually add in a small snack here)
Activity
Solids at 5pm - 1 tbsp oatmeal with .5 ounce formula + 2.5 ounces veggies
Activity
Bottle: 4-6 ounces: 6:30/6:45
Bath
Bottle: Finish 2-4 ounces
Story, Bedtime at 7:30/7:45

BTW - Marisa does the same while eating - looks around room, sucks thumb but still does love to eat - she's just very alert and busy and teething at same time!

[Gage and Sophie's Mom]

Ladies, Gage does the same thing in terms of the 45 min or 1.5-2hr naps. That is weird, I thought it was something that I was doing. Wow, do I feel better. I dont think this is a kwinky dink...... must be developmental. Does anyone know the reasoning behind this?

[FreddieEden]

I can't figure it out.   I can see the reason behind taking a 45 minute nap in the morning as then they  have just been sleeping all night.  And I think the second BW book says something about most babies having cut their morning nap to 45 minutes by 8 months.  But I can't see any reason for doing it the other way round.  If anything, they should be more tired the further along in the day it gets   Better leap in the shower whilst I have the window of opportunity.

F

[Mom to M&M]

After a long morning nap he may just need more A time in the afternoon in order to be tired enough for a good nap. My DD currently goes about 3 1/4 hours between wake time from am nap before pm nap.

Also, it looks like your DS is getting a LOT of sleep overnight - almost 12 hours? So that, combined with his long first nap is about 13.5 hours. Most LOs his age only need about 14-14.5 total hours of sleep - day/night combined. My DD only gets 10.5-11 overnight, so she needs/takes longer naps but it equals the same amount... So if you want a longer second nap you may need to limit the morning nap to no more than one hour and/or wake him a bit earlier in the morning or have a slightly later bedtime.

HTH - let us know how it goes.

[FreddieEden]

Hi

Just thought I would check in and let you know that we've successfully dropped the third nap. We had a few days of alternating between 2 nap days and 3 nap days but in the end DS simply started refusing the last nap so my hand was forced!  We seem to be slipping into a routine of 45 mins in the morning and 1.5 or 2 hours in the afternoon, though DS doesn't really do routine so I am nervous as to how long it will last (though I hope that now he is nearly 8 months old he might at last be getting more predictable).  He finishes the last nap any time between 3 and 4 and has a bedtime between 6.30 and 7.30 depending on when the last nap finished.    We have had a few problems with waking in the early part of the night which I thought was down to overtiredness but then he also did it on a day when he had napped for 1.5 hours in the morning and 2 hours in the afternoon so it must be something else.  The third tooth has just appeared (oddly another bottom one) and it's clear that more are on their way so probably that.  What a fun age this is for figuring things out!  DS is on good form though.

Thanks for your help.
Freddie

[KellyC]

Hi Freddie

Daniel sounds exactly like Zander at the moment    I'm glad you didn't have to think too hard about dropping the third nap, it happened the same for us.  I'm still struggling with 40 minute naps, though he does usually have one good nap a day I'm trying to get him into a consistent routine, so I'm using wake to sleep - remember that old chestnut?!  I always thought the only thing that would ensure a long sleep was getting our A time exactly right but I think I was in denial, his bodyclock is still stuck at 40 minutes.  I don't mind if he has a short nap because he doesn't need a long one, but when he wakes dot on the 40 minute mark it makes me very suspicious!!

Kelly x

[Gage and Sophie's Mom]

Hi Zandersmummy! When we got rid of the swaddle all of Gage's naps went to 40 min. He falls asleep without it just fine, but ALWAYS wakes after 40 min. I swear we will never be rid of that thing! Anyway do you think there may be a connection like this for Zander?
Just a thought.
Alice

[FreddieEden]

Hi Kelly and Alice!

I don't tend to worry too much about the am nap as I think that is naturally going to shorten and disappear.  I would much rather it did than having to deal with one of those situations where you have to keep putting the nap back until it is an afternoon nap.  Also, I don't tend to notice a difference in  Daniel's mood whether he has slept for 45 minutes or an hour and a half.  I know what you mean about being suspicious of  exactly 40  minutes but, then, my experience is that all naps tend to be multiples of 30 or 45  minutes because that is just how sleep cycles work.  Daniel will either sleep for an hour and a half or two hours (occasionally 1 hour 45) but will never sleep for, say, an hour and six minutes.

Kelly - you are very good doing wake to sleep.  I must say I have never really persevered with that.  I gave it a couple of tries in the early days and didn't see immediate results so I gave up!  It is a bit stressful trying to figure out exactly when they have gone to sleep (particularly as Daniel is a great one for lying silently in his cot but getting very stressed if you come in and don't pay attention to him), watching the clock and creeping in.  How are you doing with the night feeding?  Have you managed to keep up the pick up put down instead?  I know that I have to stop feeding Daniel at night some time because when he has had a couple of feeds at night he is totally uninterested in bfeeding during the day.  I keep hoping he will sort himself out but if he doesn't I have in my mind that I will stop night feeds at nine months when the solids should really start to overtake the milk anyway.  To be fair, he went right through till 6 am last night so he might be on the verge of sorting himself out.

Had a funny morning today.  I put Daniel back down after his 6am feed and when I went back in at 7 he was just lying there quietly awake so I wasn't sure whether he had been lying in his cot or had a very short sleep.  Once he had seen me, there was no retreating, though!  We had Daniel's godfather staying  with us so it was a bit tricky to try and judge when to put Daniel down as he was getting all excited and sociable and not betraying his tired signs.  In the end I compromised at 8.50 and he went out like a light so had probably been awake since 6.  I was really fearful of how he would go down as the godfather had been swinging DS round the room when I offered him a pre-nap cuddle!  Men - how could anyone think that was a good idea!

Hope you are both well.  We have the 8 month check up next week.  Really scary how quickly the time goes.  At least it is at 11.30 so will definitely fall between naps whatever pattern DS is in  .  Better go as can hear overexcited hyperventilation on the monitor.

Freddie

[KellyC]

Hi guys

Alice - I don't think I could swaddle Zander again, he's currently having his nap upside down and on his tummy!  He's also been asleep 1.5 hours and I'm going to have to wake him and feed him to go to his first swimming lesson - hopefully it will exhaust him so he has a good pm nap too!

Freddie - it's so funny that I was scared to do WTS with Zander as I thought he was a light sleeper and I would wake him up.  Turns out I can pull his arms and legs all over the place and he doesn't even stir, maybe I can stop creeping around and telling everybody to shhh when he's asleep!  We stopped the night feeds on his 7 month birthday!  We were doing the gradual weaning method but I also started playing with his daytime routine and dropped him to 3 bfs and he started to eat alot more throughout the day but in less feeds IYKWIM.  For a couple of nights he woke up later and later until he finally made it to morning.  I'm adding back in the 4th feed today because he was starving at meal times yesterday (great how things are always changing back and forward isn't it?!) but he's sleeping through to around 6am when he's decided it's time to get up and start the day 

Must go and get the little chappie now.
Kelly x