Is this to many naps?

[robynfuller]

Hi, been reading alot of the other posts and wondered if this was maybe to many naps.
Our day is not always the same and varies a bit here and there, but since implementing the same wake time everyday (to try and set body clock it has been improving - started same time waking in AM bout 2 weeks ago) Also following her sleepy signals, Our day today: (bearing in mind we were at grannies yesterday and she kept dd awake for 3 hours  to my delight 

7:00 am BF, play with mom low key
8:00 tired signals,windown (dog kept disturbing us - naughty Brian)
8:30 - 9:30 nap
9:30 - 10:20 awake, play on mobile - she has also started rolling alot past week or 2 back to tummy and tummy to back - mastered it 
10:23 - huge yawn, windown (swaddle, hum same song in chair in room, curtains closed), put in crib 10:27
10:30 - 11:08 nap (at least she is falling asleep independantly  )
11:10 bf
11:30 - 12:30 played with dad on couch, nibbled teething ring - I am not sure if she is teething? can see the teeth but they havent cut through, just as I think they are they go back down?  she bites down hard on anything and everything (fingers too - ours and hers)
12:40 big yawn, windown (always same routine)
12:50 - 13:20 nap
13:35 bf
13:55 - 15:30 play with mom and dad
15:30 yawn again, winddown, 15:38 in crib
15:41 - 16:25 nap
16:30 bf (clusterfeed)
18:20 bathtime routine (also always exactly the same)
18:40 bf
19:20 bed (awake but very drowsy)
Sleeps through till 6:00 and sssh her back to sleep till 7am wake time (takes about 5-15 minutes)

She wakes tired from some sleeps and I have been trying going in at 30 minute mark, it did work for about a week now it going backwards again, since we been very social past few days (going on visits - I needed to get out a little and birthdays) and her routine is more out of sink than usual.

I have had no problems with nightime sleep for about 2 months (when I started pu/pd and pat ssh method 17th of last month she did wake a few times now and again at night, but went down relatively easily (really only had this prob for in total about 5 nights out of the month) prior to that she would wake at either 4am or 5 am until I got an established awake time.

But now tonight to my total and utter disbelief        (she moaned at 22:00 (I went and retucked her, got thumb into her mouth - settled immediatley and back to sleep and now again at 24:00 (12:00 midnight and same thing) could this just be a relaspe due to too many naps or possibly the long stretch of awake time the day before - she really not used to that she takes on average about 4 - 5 naps (45 minutes) each day before she gives tired signals, (so I try to act on those) or is it developemental issues, I am now so confused as I thgought I was getting her on the right track with lots of hard work from us both. I guess I should also see what tomorrow holds and tomorrow night (as this night waking I am sure she is still asleep her eyes arent open) I am shocked to say the least, as I was really enjoying getting a good nights rest. (for us both)
Please any suggestions???        TIA

Robyn

[deb]

Hmmm... I'm of two minds here:

It seems as though this routine is basically working for all of you, so maybe it's not broken, so you shouldn't try to fix it. She does fall asleep independently, which is ever so nice.

That said, it doesn't seem so much that it's too MANY naps, just too many short ones instead of maybe 2 longer ones (and possibly still an evening catnap, although Nat had gone to 2 naps around 5-6 months herself). You mentioned that Grannie kept her up for 3 hours - was she overstimulated and upset? Or interested and just a little harder than usual to settle? I'm just wondering if maybe she'd be amenable to your increasing her awake time gradually, maybe in increments of 5-10 minutes every couple days, till her EASY schedule is around 4 hours or so. Since you're following the EASY routine but she's napping so frequently, she's also nursing more frequently, and as her feeding needs change as she grows - and they WILL change - she may want less frequent bigger feeds, which a longer more spread-out routine would give her. And she'll be ready for solids in a few short weeks, which will also change the EASY routine anyway. When Josie was 3-3.5 months old and napping for 45 minutes (and waking cranky), it was the gradually longer Awake time that lengthened her naps (that and me going in and helping her extend them).

Those are my thoughts, for whatever they're worth. I'll be curious to see what other responses you get.

[robynfuller]

Hi deb, Happy Mothers Day, 

thanks for quick response, the little tyke woke up at 5AM this morning,    I tried to settle her for 45 minutes then realised she was hungry so fed her - a little earlier today but hopefully will try to spread her other feeds back to noraml times.

With granny she was interested and yes a little harder to settle. I am going to try extend those awake times today and throughout the week and see how it goes. With regards to EASY she seems to be spreading them herself. Usually goes four hours once a day (either morning 7-11:00 or early afternoon or 10-14:00 other than that the feeds come closer to 3 hours as the day goes on. I am happy with the cluster feeds at 17:00 and 19:00ish as they seem to carry her through the evening (which wasnt the case last night as the timing was a bit off - figured thats why she was hungry earlier today)

With regards to extending naps, previously, I had been tryin it with all naps, but feel I should try it with two naps everyday always the same ones, (also mid morning and then again lunch time or a bir after) as for those two as she does wake up cranky. the other ones she is always smiling and ready to party. I should try to link it if possible to that four hour feed. This morning we just couldnt keep her up longer than 1hr and 30 minutes (10:00-11:20) i swaddled her, sang song and popped her in crib and she fell alseep immediately (so I will try to extend this nap in about 30 mintues or so. Thank you again for your input. Hope you have a splendid day and that you get spoilt rotten for being such a great mom 

Regards
Robyn

[UNCMomma]

Robyn, I also have the same problem with my LO in that I need to extend awake times too.  Just be sure to do it a little at a time like Deb said b/c I went for it one time (extended awake time by about 20 min each 3 hour period) and my baby literally LOST IT.  5-10 min every couple of days works a lot better.  And I think you're really smart to work on the same 2 naps each day, making them longer.  Good luck!  And Happy Mother's Day to you!


Amanda

[robynfuller]

HI deb,

Today was not so great, she woke at 5:20am I coudnt settle her and eventually caved and gave her the boob. She took such a huge feed and gulped it all done. The rest of the day she was so cranky and fusssed and cried alot  . I am not sure whats wrong   
Anyway she fed almost every 3 hours and once after 2 1/2 hours. I put her to bed at 19:15 and she woke again at 21:45 to feed again - and again gulped it down. Is this the 6 month growth spurt, isnt it to soon? I even thought she was teething as she was also biting her fists uncontrollably today. I can see some white coming through her bottm row and felt it, its like two ridges but not sure if its teeth? Dont think they are cutting still gum.

SHould I just carry on feeding her everytime she wakes as thats all that will settle her. She went straight back to sleep after I fed her now at 22:00. I dont want to hold back on her. PLease help. Really tough one today, schedule is totally out the window,I feel I should just ride it out. Her last growth spurt was also a little eearly but not by 3 weeks. Could I be reading her signs wrong???
Totally confused at the moment. Just so much going on and so much to consider.
Your help/ input would be greatly appreciated.
TIA
Robyn

[KellyC]

Hi Robyn

Zander was having an early morning bf until he was 7 months old - in fact he was very unsettled at night between about 5 and 7 months and there were many occassions when he woke even earlier for a feed and sometimes 2.  This is completely normal so don't think you're necessarily doing something wrong.  I would certainly feed her as soon as she wakes at around 5am (in the dark etc) and then put her straight back down before she gets the chance to be too awake.  Hopefully she'll then go through to her 7am awake time.  I've found a few things will unsettle Zander in terms of his feeding - teething (though he still has none!), colds etc.  Just try to get back on track with the 4 hour EASY but continue to read your LO's cues if she's getting hungry earlier.  In a few weeks you'll be onto solids so it will all change again!

I agree that you may need to slowly extend your A times too, until there at least around the 2 hour mark.  I also think it's a good plan to concentrate on extending only one or two of your naps as it's completely exhausting and can make you feel awful, particularly if you're unsuccessful.  I would try to extend your second nap.  So let's say your DD wakes at 7am and manages a 2 hour A time until 9am and then sleeps for 45 minutes, just get her up and don't worry and aim for another A time of 2 hours so you're getting her down again at around 12pm or just before.  Have you tried W2S yet?  I would give it a go for this nap.  If you know she usually wakes after 45 minutes then go in at around 30 minutes and do whatever it takes to rouse her just enough so that it disrupts her sleep cycle - as soon as she moves stop.  Is her room completely black?  If not I'd recommend getting some blackout fabric and velcroing it to the window frame!  We've recently done this and it's made it possible for us to do W2S more successfully as he can't see me if he opens his eyes!  I was finding that stroking Zander's cheek or moving his arms and legs just wasn't rousing him enough so now I actually turn his whole body over until he stirs and it seems (touch wood!) to be working.  I would start off gently and then build up if it doesn't seem to be working - you'll need to keep going with this for around a week to see if you can get it to work.  If you can get this nap to be a long one then you'll probably only need one other nap which will be the catnap.  The catnap is a freebie so you can go for a walk or have a cuddle together on the bed, since you only want it to be 30-45 minutes and this is the first nap you'll drop.  Give yourself a break with this one!

HTH
Kelly

[robynfuller]

Thank you, I really ant to hold off solids till the 6 month mark too.
She sleeps in our room, I have a blanket over one window but the other is a bay window a round one, all the light comes in there 
I never thgouth that would be a problem  I guess you are right though as when she sees me, party time and smiles, not always though, and yes it is VERY exhausting. As i am doing this on my own, dad has multiple jobs at moment and too tired to help much - he has tried but she just gets so confused and cries harder at sleep time if mommy doesnt do it- all our parents work and I am the maid too. I guess I can be greatful for once that I am so stubborn that I will persist, but we all need a break now and again, supermoms 

 Well at least I got her to sleep independantly, just hope this doenst change with all thats going on. I am gong to have to make a plan with that other window though. She just seemed exhausted today, poor little thing I just feel so bad for her, very cranky, and she not always like this, only if there is a probllem. I am trying to extend 2 naps a day (morning 9:0-11:0 and afternon12:00-14:00) and trying to extend her awake time. With regards to awake time i do it 5- 15 minutes.

The past 3 days nufortunately she has been awake around 3 hours at a stretch- grannies and all - mothers day, show house too, so we had to be out the house for 3 hours. I was not impressed.    and I guess I have also been very stressed lately - having to move and all. So maybe she picking up on that too. Still not sure where we going. But that is a whole other story.
So the schedule we have been working so hard onn is totally out the wndow for now. (IS it really habit after three days with a baby of 5 months - really makes me worry that I am going to have to do this all over again and we were maing such good progress)

I guess I just need to vent as well, a glass of wine would do me great right now but I dont have any  maybe thats a good thing.
Well thanks for your input, much appreciated. I just need to remember that there is a light at the end of the tunnel. Just hard sometimes.

Will let you know how it goes, wish me luck for tommorow dad out of town for two nights.
Robyn

[KellyC]

Big hugs {{}}.  I do all the sleep stuff here too - DH has tried in the past but I just end up annoyed with him for doing it 'wrong'    Sometimes life gets in the way of our routines but just try to make things as consistent as you can for your LO, she'll thrive on her routine during times when lots of things are changing but you're right she may be picking up on your stress.

How are you extending the naps?  I think the W2S (disrupting the sleep cycle) is the best method if you can get it to work as it takes such little effort so you don't feel like bursting into tears (well not always!) if it doesn't work.

A mum on my birth club has round windows and she was going to get a piece of foam to put in it to block out light.  Pitch dark is what you need!

Let me know how it goes.
Kelly

[robynfuller]

With extended naps I uasually go in at the 30/35 minute mark (some of her naps have shortened of late) I have not tried w2s, but maybe i should just scared I wake her and then its all over.

I will go in at the mark quiet as a mouse and lay my hand on her shoulder (les on her side) and gently begin to apply pressure, not too much, just to help with the jolt. But at 45 mintues she jolts and eyes open wide, sometimes not. So then I do sssh, I dont pat anymore as it seems to disrupt her, and dont pu either as it just makes it worse, I leave her in crib and usually stay there for another 40 minutes so she gets used to being in bed during that time as it should be sleep time - is that right to do it this way?  after 40 minutes I take her out room, feed if i need to and watch her signals.

I have keyed down her activity too so she is not to overstimulated - in hopes that that would help too. She is just so tired, probably overtired with all thats been going on. I have read posts on wake to sleep so maybe I should give it a bash. I guess i have nothing to lose and only a happy baby to gain.

 Thanks for that will keep you posted. Probably be online all night tomorrow, reading posts    as dp is away, and not hoggin the
computer, as uusual. I really think this site is a blessing for me. 
Thanks for your promtness. I gotta head for bed can barely keep my eyes open.
Robyn

[KellyC]

Did you try W2S or still not sure?  The great thing if it does work is that it's only taken a minute or so to achieve instead of 40 or more!

[robynfuller]

Hi zandersmummy,

Well i manged to block out the light in our room with an old navy blue duvet cover, until I can get something better. Does seem to work, by the time Ive swaddled her and am singing her song, thumb is in mouth and eyes already starting to close. But, as fate would have it some external influences have broken my attempts to w2s the past 2 days, phone, unexpected visitors, etc . How they happen to arrive just as I try to extend I dont know   This usually never happens. So I have just been letting her get the 30 - 45 minute naps and watching her cues, trying to not overstimulate her to much as she is very grumpy with so littl day time sleep.

 I have also moved her bedtime routine up by 30 mintues, in hopes that she can catch up on some sleep. I thought I would just go with the flow, not get to uptight about it and just relax,   it will get better. So I am just going to persist and hopefully my household will return to its normal self again. Quiet! Aside from street noise and dogs, which she is beginning to get accustomed to.

And giving her lots of time to practice her new rolling skills  

Thanks again for help I really needed that, dnt know why I didnt think of it sooner, I have read it so many times  

Robyn

[KellyC]

I thought I would just go with the flow, not get to uptight about it and just relax,   it will get better.

Sounds like a great plan, I've made this decision a few times when things have been rough and come back to extending naps or whatever it is when I'm feeling more positive.

Take care
Kelly

[robynfuller]

Hello again,

Well today was better, she slept for 2 x 1 1/2 hours naps and 1 x 1 hr and 10 mintues, I did not even have to assist her 
I am extending her awake time to about 1 3/4 to  2 hours and am moving feeds slowy to four hours, mostly 3, 3 1/2 still. Being aware of the growth spurt still to come. I checked back in my log book ( I have actually printed out a log of the past 3 weeks to pick up on patterns etc, how obsessive is that  , but it has made me feel better and patterns have emerged so now its just getting them back and adjusting to her age) and this all began the day she rolled over properly on her own, without my help, and boy did she roll that day, practising of course.

The darker room really seems to be helping alot. So lets hope tomorrow will be a breakthrough day aswell. keeping my fingers crossed. I think me being more relaxed about has helped a ton too. Thank you again. Big Hugs of appreciation for your support.
Robyn

[KellyC]

That's fantastic    Well done to you both!