The Queen of accidental parenting... needs help!!

[SerenaLouise]

Hello there - this is my first time here and of course I've been driven here by my own parenting ... and feeling very upset about it.

I do not want to bore you with loads of background but briefly, despite my own PND and lousy labour etc. I have a wonderful 9 month old baby who is pretty much textbook despite my inept moments, and is pretty much permanently smiley. I am definitely very lucky.

However - since about 3 months old I've been taking him for a walk when it was time for his naps even though I got some help with a bit of sleep training (which was very BW in style, ie not leaving him to cry etc..)... and now I cannot face the tears and yelling when I try and get him to nap in the daytime in his cot. The result is that he gets tireder and tireder as the day progresses.

Nighttimes are pretty much OK - yes he sometimes wakes early, usually wakes once in the night, but I suppose I've got used to that, and compared to others it doesn't seem so bad. He also goes down awake (but drowsy) and is capable of self soothing, even if it doesn't happen everytime.

It's the lack of daytime sleep - rarely goes past 45 minutes (sound familiar?) and always always in his pram.

Because we were both sick last week I b'fd him lying in bed at 2pm, even though we've come down to only early morning and before bed b'fding. Well. He slept on the bed with me for 2.5 hours!!!!!!!!!!!!

He also slept so much better that night. He was definitely catching up, but even so this showed me that he isn't getting as much sleep during the day as he needs ('cos I needed a huge sign, having ignored the small signs for the last months).

Sorry this is such a long post. I'm so tired (my own insomnia) that I found it very difficult to work through the BW next stage stuff.

Many thanks for any help,

Serena

PS BW was fantastic when Jack was very young, so I'm sure something can be done!

[Mom to M&M]

Hi there. Sounds like you definitely need to get him used to napping in his crib and not only the pram. I know that my DD will only catnap in her stroller but will take nice long naps (usually) in her crib. At this age, it's generally tough for them to nap for long times in a stroller.

Why don't you post his general routine - wake up times, nap times, etc.

At his age, on average, his A times should be approximately 3-3.5 hours - so post his routine and we'll figure it out!

[SerenaLouise]

thanks, it's not a very rigid schedule but essentially looks a bit like this...

5.30-6.30am wakes up, I nurse him for about 10-15 minutes in bed

Then changing, playing and saying goodbye to DH

7.30am breakfast

8.30am sleep or go to nursery (2 days a week) and fall asleep on teh way for 25 minutes. If we're home we'll take a walk and he'll fall asleep for 20-45 minutes

On waking - formula and rusk to chew on

9.30-10am more playing/baby group/shopping/visiting

may fall asleep briefly before lunch if we're in the car etc, or at nursery

 11.30-midday Lunch

playing etc

1.30-2pm sleep - usually 45 minutes. Sometimes up to an hour.

more stuff!

2.30-3pm formula/fruit

4.30-5pm brief sleep - 20 minutes

5-5.30pm supper

Bath

6.30pm b'fding for 10-20 minutes

Asleep by 7pm. Can be 7.30pm -8pm if he's having a difficult evening, but not often

During the night he wakes up quite a bit, but goes back to sleep without intervention (I probably wouldn't know if I wasn't awake).. only once usually does he need attending to, and I confess to b'fding him at this time at the moment. Mostly because if he hasn't got a cold, he's teething, and is more difficult to settle. It's not often the same time every night, can be 10.30pm, can be 2pm, can be 4pm!

I think that's it. Is that the sort of thing you needed?

[Mom to M&M]

OK - it definitely looks like you have to get him home for some crib naps - at his age it's hard to expect him to always nap on the run - and motion naps aren't as restorative as motionless ones. Of course it's ok to have maybe a couple of naps a week in a stroller or car, but it shouldn't really be the norm.

At his age, I'd aim for his first nap to start 3 hours after waking. So if he wakes at 6am, nap should be at 9am. So at 8:50 in that case, you can bring him in his room, dim the lights, change his diaper, read a story and sing a lullaby and put him in his crib drowsy but awake. You may need to do PU/PD at first to get him used to napping in his crib (and you can post on the PU/PD board for more help on this). You'll eventually be aiming for a nap of 1-1.5 hours.

Then 3-3.5 hours after this nap should be his second nap, again ideally in his crib - this one should be 1-2 hours, but you may want to wake him by 4pm in order to preserve a bedtime of 7:30 or so.

You may even want to tackle just one nap first - it's up to you. Have you read the book?

[SerenaLouise]

Great, many thanks. Yes, I read the first book? I've just bought the answers/questions (sorry, don't have it in front of me) book that goes on to talk more about detail/case studies/toddlers etc... and have been dipping in to it, but feel that I don't know where to start - you've given me that.

I don't think I explained clearly enough; whilst I walk him to sleep, it's only around the block, and we come home again for him to have the majority of the nap. But it's true that it's probably just not as comfortable now he's bigger (boy is he:-) ...........

When we go into his nursery during the day he gets agitated before I even look as if I'm going to get him to sleep, but I do see that I need to do all the routine things I do in the evening. Should I go as far as changing him into the sleeping bag we use at night do you think?

When I tried using Pu/Pd some months ago it was just too "exciting" for him, shushing worked, but only if he couldn't see me/make eye contact (abit like the awake to sleep thing I've read on here).. That was fine in his crib, but impossible to do in his cot. I don't want to leave the room altogether, but I'm not sure how to hide - I'll figure something out...

I do realise that I demently try and be out a lot to stop myself going crazy, but I guess it's chicken and egg.. if he was sleeping better I wouldn't feel so wrung out.

[Mom to M&M]

Well it's good that the whole nap isn't while walking in stroller but one thing to keep in mind is that when transitioning from one sleep cycle to another, babies tend to need whatever they fell asleep with. So if they fell asleep with a pacifier, they will want it when they stir/wake, if they fell asleep strolling they may expect to still be strolling when stirring. You don't want him dependent on motion to fall asleep or stay asleep.

He probably looks agitated when you bring him in his nursery because he's not used to napping in there - it willl take a lot of time and patient and probably a lot of PU/PD - you may want to ask for some help on the board for that and maybe find a modified way that's not too exciting for him?

Personally, I'm not a fan of sleeping bags once they are this mobile - I think it hampers them from normal developmental phases and can get in the way and be a tripping hazard once they are pulling up.

I know it's hard to feel "trapped" at home but if you can devote 2-3 weeks of solid sleep training, it should pay off and then you'll have a better routine and more flexiblity to get out in between naps.

Good luck - keep us posted!

[SerenaLouise]

Hi there -

Well it took til this morning for me to feel ready to do the nap training, and tbh after he had woken up 5 times last night and stayed awake from 5am I was past worrying about the possible crying. He is just over a bad cold and I think last night was because he was so tired he couldn't settle.

This morning looked like this:

5am - nursed Jack in bed - tried to settle him between us - he wanted to play

6.15am - DH gave Jack a bath as he was too tired last night (Jack, not DH :-), and went to sleep at 5pm (yes, he hadn't slept *ALL* day)

7.30am - Mummy and Jack take a very long walk and no sleep in sight... Mummy about to scream with tiredness..... jack already screaming with tiredness

8.15am - I follow your recommendations re: nursery, book, lullaby (Moon River actually, I must brush up on my lullabys)....

Jack stiffens as soon as I put him in the cot, and screamed louder everytime I picked him up.
In the end I left him lying, didn't even talk to him, just sat next to him avoiding eye contact. Still quietly singing though.

8.40am - Jack out cold!

10.45 - Jack wakes up smiling !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I know it's going to take a while, but I'm so so encouraged,and cannot thank you enough,

Cheers,


S

[Mom to M&M]

Great news - keep up the good work!