almost 7 mo, nap questions

[x95stocchier]

Hi! Thanks for the new FAQ board.  That is great information!

When reading through it I came up with a couple questions (at the bottom).  DS is almost 7 mo old.  We are dealing with a few problems:
1. early wakes....from 5:20~6 (he goes from talking to fussing to talking to fussing to crying)
2. usually 3 nw, sometimes as early as 9 pm
I have asked advice on nw board on those issues, but not sure if naps are affecting it.
3. not sure how many/how long naps he needs anymore....
(we just started solids, so still small amounts, and we have no prop, I don't think he's teething yet)

here's our routine:
up at 6:30 (always awake before) & bf (did I mention I'd prefer 7!?) lol
7:30 1 T veggies
9:15 nap (max 1:30)
10:45 bf
11:45 1 T cereal or fruit
1 nap (max 1:30)
2:30 bf
5:15 bf, bedtime routine
6 top off and crib by 6:15 (pulled this up from 7 when dropped catnap_)
(still has 1-2 night feeds)

we dropped catnap because of early wakes and some degree of fighting it.  now I'm wondering if he still needs it.  His A time is 2:45, but it's tough to get to 6 pm.  I read on your FAQ not to drop catnap till they can do 3 hrs A time.  I have tried but not much luck.  Even if he naps till 3 pm, still SO tired at 6 pm.  Should I bring it back?  It's been gone for a month now.  I think he's back to chronic overtired.  He is in bed 12 hrs at night, but not good sleep because of nw and early wakes.  Most mornings I try to get him to 2:45 A time, but it's hard.  he goes down SO much easier if I give in earlier.  And sometimes those naps are short....like 55 min.  But that doesn't seem to lengthen PM nap.  What should I be aiming for?  I read 3 hrs total day sleep at this age, but I don't think it's cutting it for him.  I tried to extend PM nap yesterday with w2s but he woke 7 min later.  (he's never responded well to w2s)  Not sure what I should be doing at this point, but I think naps hold an important key to his early wakes and overtired issues.

Should I try to extend a nap less than 1 hr?  (often has 52 min naps)

I read a recent post by stacy for a 6.5 mo old that said:
wake
A time 2:30
AM nap 1 hr
A time 2:45
nap 1:30
then a catnap to wake by 4:30/5 pm and
bed by 7

should I try to reintroduce catnap and then how do I follow this schedule if he wakes early?  leave him in crib and start A time clock when he won't stand to be in crib anymore?

Thanks!  He HAS come a long way, used to be 45 min napper.  (BTW the post in FAQs about perspective on frustrating naps was very good. thanks!) But I really thought I'd be past all this by 7 mo!  And like I said, nights are not good, and I'm sure naps are part of the picture.  I appreciate your help!  Feel like I'm always asking for help, but here we are again! lol

[Ami ~ 3 girls' mom]

I've had to bring back the catnap, too.   

[x95stocchier]

Stacy-thanks for the advice.  I think I already know the answer to this one, but if he is rubbing his eyes early for teh catnap (like 2 hrs) should I go ahead and put him down?  Seems so short of an A time......

Ami-glad to know I'm not the only one who missed this one!

[x95stocchier]

forgot to reply on your question re: nap length...not consistant....52, 56, 1:17, 120, 124, 133  all times we had this week. 

[x95stocchier]

okay, here's an update.  Yesterday's routine more or less followed that schedule
AM A=2:30
AM nap: 53 min
A=2:40
PM nap: 1:21
A=1:50 (rubbing eyes hard, and lots of fussing)
catnap: 20 min of fighting it, but fell asleep for 38 min
A=1:20
bedtime came just 1:20 after woke from catanp because again fussing and eye rubbing (I think he's still overtired)

still total day sleep was just 3 hrs
he did have a few nw, but slept till 6:30 this morning!

Unfortunately he won't sleep in stroller, and takes 40 min to fall asleep in car. 20 min of looking around in interest, and 20 min of fussing & crying, so we decided to just do it in the crib, though, like I said, took 20 min of fussing and some comforting on my part to get him down.  I wondered if it would be better or worse if I tried to extend that A time before catnap...he might have gone down easier, or might have fought harder because of overtired.

[cscott]

Hi, sounds like your having the same problems as us . My baby will not take her catnap anywhere but the crib, but she fusses. I don't think she knows if she wants it let alone me! Our mornings are v early too (5.30-6). She's overtired I'm sure and it just gets worse. Just wish this phase would be over. When people say the A time need to be 3 hrs to drop the cat nap, is that 3  hrs between each nap including from wake?

[x95stocchier]

Okay, thanks for the advice.  Will have to start tomorrow. Woke him early from Am nap, but at 1:15, not 45.....also, I see you suggest cutting AM A time yet again to 2:15, and PM to 2:30 instead of 2:30 and 2:45, is that right?  He's doing pretty well with 2:30 & 2:45 A times , should I still cut?

[x95stocchier]

okay, thanks for the clarification.  I think longer pm nap IS a good idea.  lately he's been falling asleep at the breast after the pm nap, which doesn't make sense, and he never does that.  I am not sure what time to do w2s on pm nap.  Do you have a suggestion on what time to start with w2s or should I just wait 3-4 days and see where he's waking?

Thanks again! you have been so helpful!

[x95stocchier]

next one watch his cue and put him down between 2.5 and 2.75 and then wake him by 4 so leave time enough for a short cat nap....

what did you mean by "wake him by 4" ?

BTW-love your new picture!

[x95stocchier]

okay, so what should I do when he takes the whole time for catnap crying/fussing/trying to fall asleep?  That happened tdoay.  40 min we spent trying to catnap.  Then, it was well past time to get up.  He's still not asleep yet.  What should I do?  I just got him up, fed him and did quick bedtime routine and put him to bed (at 5:45!) because he was so tired, but that's not going to help me tomorrow....he'll be up before dawn, to be sure.  of course, he's still in there fussing and trying to fall asleep because he's now overtired.   grrrr....  we have such a problem with overtiredness, I have no idea what to do in cases like this.

[x95stocchier]

Thanks, you always give me perspective.  One more question, if you don't mind...when he wakes early (like, say 6 or 5:30) should I just start the day from there? I have been trying to get him to stay in crib till 6:30 or as near as I can and then start the "A time clock" from then, not wake up. Is that right?  but sometimes he's already overtired by first nap, though....

[x95stocchier]

Hi Stacy-  Thanks for always replying so quickly!
He woke at 5:30 this AM, so I was glad tohave your answer.  We were able to put him off till 6:15, but only got 2 hrs A time in the morning.  I woke him at 45 and he was NOT happy, but survived.  2:30 A time, then 1:20 nap.  When he woke up I went to get him and he really got mad.  I wonder if I should have tried to get him back to sleep?  what do you think>  or just wait a few days to find his pattern then try w2s..?

Good news, he went down for his catnap with just a little fuss..not 20 min of crying!  Albiet at 3:30, but I guess we'll just have another early bedtime tonight, I'll follow his cues.  Hopefully not as early as last night.

I was wondernig, while I'm waiting to do w2s on his PM nap, should I let him catnap up to an hr, since he's going down so early/getting so little day sleep with the AM nap cut to 45 ?

Also, this is a pu.pd question, but I am doing just pressure on his tummy/back and legs instead of pu because he was so overstimulated.  Been doing that for about 2 mo, and don't often need it, or not for more than 1-2 min, but I have noticed when using it recently, sometimes he stops crying as soon as I come in the room. I have tried not touching, just saying it's okay and leaving, but he starts right back up in a high pitched scream as soon as he sees me leave.  Is this seperation anxiety?  Should I continue as is, or now that he's 7 mo old, are any changes necessary?
Thanks!