help with daytime naps

[sausage]

My 13 week old is a treasure at going to sleep at night. she has a bath at 7pm, then a bottle then is put into her cot with a music box and  falls asleep on her own within  10 or 20 minutes. However the day time is a different story. She just doesn't want to sleep yet she is clearly tired.  I pick her up the second she rubs her eyes or yawns. I have tried putting her into her cot and using the shush pat but she can't settle no matter how long I stay with her. I sometimes manage to get her to go to sleep in my arms using shush pat put can only successfully put her in her cot 50% of the time without her waking up as soon as I lay her down. Sometimes she will cry then and others she will just lay there and smile at me. She is on a 4 hourly drinking about 6 oz. She wakes for 2 feeds in the night regardless of whether she has had a dream feed or not. She needs constant attention during the day as she gets bored very easily however she is very forward for her age. I would like to be able to get in the shower and be able to leave her for 10 minutes knowing that she is either entertaining herself or asleep! She has been like this from day 1!

[Caroline-Charlies Mummy]

Hello, welcome to the boards

Have you seen this? https://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=64274.0  It's one of our FAQs and explains why this is happening - have you had a look in that section? It might help - it's at the top of the Naps forum.

Can you please post your lo's routine? There may be a reason why this is happening, and we will have a look and see if we can help

[sausage]

Thanks for replying.
by baby's weight is 14 lbs (6.4kg)

7pm - bath change
7.20pm - bottle - (6oz)
8pm - bed ( asleep by 8.45pm
1-2am - feed - (6oz) I tried dream feeding her for a week and she still woke at this time for a feed!
4.20am - feed - (4oz)
6.30am - awake
8am - feed 4 oz
9 - 9.30 - sleep - ( 40 minutes if in her cot up to 1 1/2 hours if in my arms!! if short nap then I will try and get her down for another one before her lunchtime feed but this isn't usually very successful.
12.00pm - feed 4 to 5 oz
I then try and put her down for a lunchtime nap. (same senario as morning nap and sometimes no sleep at all)
4pm - feed (6oz)
I try again to get her to nap!!

I realise that her 4.20am feed is stopping her from feeding properly during the day and then this in turn is stopping her from sleeping longer at night.
I have tried a dream feed but she still wake for the 2 feeds during the night.
I have also tried to extend her 4.20 feed by using her pacifier but I can normally only get an extra 10-20 minutes out of her before she is screaming the house down.

She is what I would have described as a spirited/grumpy baby as she fights going to sleep and is on the go all the time between feeds and quite often grumpy. However when I have got her to have three good sleeps during the day ( usually in my arms, car seat or pram) she is a different child and a lot more content.I do use shush/pat to get her to sleep.

[becky1969]

I don't mean to hop on here! But, I just wondered how long you tried the dream feed? When we first instituted it at around 11 weeks (trying to eliminate the #$@*$"&@$(&* night feeds!), it took almost a full week for it to happen. The first 2 nights nothing changed! The 3rd night he skipped one feeding, and by the end of the week both feeds were gone. This is probably unsolicited advice, but I almost gave up after those first 2 nights but my DH convinced me we needed to try for at least a week. I'm glad I listened to him!

[sausage]

Thanks I will give the dream feed another go. I have just read that section on the website and I think I will just have to persevere for a little while longer.

[Caroline-Charlies Mummy]

Thanks Becky, you're right. Things like dream-feeds and sssh/pat take a while before they start to work. The later nightwakings should subside if you can get into the habit of dream-feeding. If they keep happening, and you're sure she's not waking out of hunger, that's where the techniques come into play, eg using sssh/pat for the 4.20am wake-up.

BTW, if this wake-up is so consistent (ie it's at 4.20am every night), then you could try another technique known as wake-to-sleep, especially if sssh/pat doesn't seem to work for her. You can find out about this technique in our FAQ section - if you have any questions, we'll be happy to answer them for you.

Also, if you do have problems in the night, we have a great Nightwakings forum on this board, who'll be a great help I'm sure.

One thing I did notice from your routine is that her A (awake) times seem a little long for one of her age - around 2 1/2 hours, is that right? Do you think it would be possible to try putting her down a little earlier, especially for the morning nap? This may help with the overtiredness.

It does sound to me as if your problems do stem from your lo getting overtired from lack of sleep in the day. I think you need to persist with this, and you really should see a marked improvement. We are always here for advice and/or support, so keep checking back, and let us know how you get on.

[sausage]

Thanks,
I am 6 days into persisting with the dream feed. Last night she went to bed at 6.30pm as she was shattered and went straight off. She then woke around 9.30pm and so I fed her (6oz). She then woke at 1am. I decided not to feed her but to shush pat her and she fell back to sleep. She then woke about every half an hour until 3.30am whereby I decided to feed her. She only took an ounce and then started screaming (she didn't actually want it!) I then put her back down and she slep until 6.00am. My husband then got up and fed her ( she took 6oz which never happens at this time in the morning normally). He put her back in her cot and she slept on and off untill 8.30am.  We got her up and dressed her and had a play and then while we were getting ready to go out we lay her down on our bed. Normally she would kick up a fuss but she just lay there looking tired. We then put her in her cot and she fell asleep on her own at 9.45am for the first time ever!       . She has just woken up (10.15am) but she is lying looking at her mobile and playing with her hands. She is also 15 minutes late for her feed!! I let you know whether this wonderful pattern continues. Best wishes.

[becky1969]

YAY!!!! You know, those persistent waking every 30 minutes could either be from being overtired (they jolt at the 30 minute mark which wakes them and they have difficulty going to sleep) or because her night sleep got disrupted by waking fully for that dream feed. I have a feeling if she gets more daytime sleep, that problem will resolve itself. It's wonderful she slept so consistently after the attempted feeding!

With a little more rest in her, she may be more responsive to nap extention techniques. You'll really want her to sleep more than 1 sleep cycle (45 minutes) in order to get the restorative sleep she needs.

Really watch that awake time, and you may have some easier times getting her own for naps. At that age, my LO could only go about 1hr45 of awake time. Even now, 2.5 hours is really stretching it for him (he's 27 weeks). Once they get overtired, getting them to sleep is miserable! And getting them to STAY asleep is a losing battle.

When my LO hit 12 weeks and started short napping, I just kept REALLY copious notes to find the 'sweet spot' for puting him down. After 3 days, he was starting to put himself back to sleep after waking at the 45 minute mark, and by the end of the week I didn't even hear him stir at 45 minutes - maybe just a murmur! Since your LO is probably staying awake too long, try cutting back to 1hr45 and see how she does. It was also really hard to tell sleep cues at that age. by the time I saw a yawn, it was WAY too late whereas before the yawn was my main cue!