Merged: Please help me break cycle/1hr 15 min naps

[brightside]

We are in such a mess here with sleep.  DS had an ear infection and then teething which in total went on for about 3 weeks causing all sorts of accidental parenting to sooth him. Now there is nothing wrong with him other than a terrible cycle of overtiredness. He wakes almost every night-often around 10-12pm (for anything up to 2 hours) and then again at 5am. At this waking I feed him and he usually goes back to sleep fairly quickly. The trouble is the poor night sleep leads to poor naps and then the cycle starts again because he goes to bed overtired!  Its very hard to control the day sleep as he goes to daycare and he is lucky to get 2x40 min naps. I am working with the staff there to ensure he gets regular naps to prevent overtiredness but its not working very well. Before this illness he seemed ok with the naps there because he always had a 3rd one when I picked him up. Now I struggle to get him to have one because he's so overtired.    I spend most the weekend doing PD when he wakes from early naps in an attempt to get him back on track before the week starts but he is still not sleeping right. When he wakes from an early nap, unless he gets back to sleep very quickly, he gets a second wind and really doesn't seem tired enough to go back to sleep. I try to put him down again a bit earlier but he doesn't seem to want to go to sleep until he's had his usual A time of 3hr 15mins. Then he goes to sleep no problem but wakes after 40 mins or 1hr 15.

When he wakes I KNOW he is still tired because he cries when he wakes and also by the fact he HAS to be tired because of the poor night.  Each day I manage to get him to have about 2 hours sleep but this isn't enough to make up for what he lost at night. Any suggestions?

Some nights I put him to bed at 5.45pm to prevent him getting overtired.
Here is a typical day at the moment.
7am I wake him up if he isn't already awake
9am first nap-usually 45 mins, sometimes has 1 hr 15 but wakes up crying
Try to get him back to sleep doing PD method (age appropriate)
12pm give him lunch (still not had anymore sleep)
12.45pm go for nap 2-if at daycare will have about 40 mins. If at home will have about 1.5hours
4.30pm I will pick him up and try to get him to have a half hour nap. If not, goes to bed 5.45pm.
wakes in night for 1.5-2 hours-just can't seem to get back to sleep.
5am wakes and I give him a  bottle.

Each day we are lucky to get him to have 12 hours out of his normal/average 14 so he is getting more and more tired.  HELP!!!!

[brightside]

I know to some this would be heaven but its far too short for my DS at the moment. He is having all sorts of night wakes due to overtiredness so even a nap for 1h15 is not long enough to recoup his lost sleep. I know he is still tired because he wakes crying. My question is: is it worth trying to extend a nap of this length? Is it too long-if you kwim? Is he tired ENOUGH to sleep more? When I have tried to extend, its not worked because after about half hour he gets a second wind and doesn't seem tired anymore. Should I persevere?

[PeepersMom]

can you put him down earlier for night sleep to try to help with the night wakings?  Sometimes just 15 -30 min earlier helps a bunch.  Then he can catch up and be rested enough to take a longer nap.  Is he on one nap?

[brightside]

The 1hr 15 nap can be either am or pm or sometimes both. He always has 2 naps, sometimes 3 if the 2nd was very short.

I do put him down early in the evening for bed if I think he hasn't napped well. Some days he has gone down at 5.45pm 

[Ami ~ 3 girls' mom]

I hear you!     I've never seen a baby so different in night sleep and naps as Savannah.  She happily takes naps but is up several times at night.

Have you tried wake-to-sleep for naps or is it possible that daycare could do it at the 30-minute mark?  It helps her when she's stuck on napping "only" 1-1/2 hours.

[brightside]

Thanks guys! I don't think the daycare would do w2s. The issue there is the noise rather than a habit waking I think. In fact I'd be delighted if he would even nap 1h 15 there!

Last night he only woke at 10.15 for about 45 mins which is good progress. He then slept 1h 15 for am nap but only 45 mins for pm nap. My parents did have to wake him unfortunately though for a doc appointment but my dad said he was very restless anyway and doubted that he would have slept more than 45 mins.  Have just put him to bed at 6.30 so that he doesn't become overtired. Fingers crossed for tonight.

[brightside]

Thanks Stacy. I agree the A times are really long enough. They have been short recently because of all the night wakes. I have been putting him down after about 2-2.5 hours first thing to prevent him getting overtired after being awake in the night. I THINK the 1h15 is because he is going to bed overtired. I think he sleeps longer than 40 mins because he is SO exhausted but can't get past the 1h15 due to being overtired.

Touch wood-the last few nights, he hasn't woken at 5am for the bottle. I initially gave it to him at that time if he woke because I wanted him to go back to sleep quickly (after being up earlier in the night) and for him to have the chance to sleep in without waking out of hunger-kwim?

Last night was a weird wake up. He woke at 2am and was awake for an hour. During most of that time he was quite happy and calm and chatting to himself. When I left the room though he started crying. I did PD whenever he tried to stand up and sat in the room out of sight but saying "shh, its night time" whenever he started to cry. After an hour he seemed to be really calm so I left and I think he fell asleep for about 1/2 hour. Then he woke again and took me 20 mins to settle. Do you think I responded to the wake correctly? He didn't seem in pain or anything. I also don't think he went to bed overtired so not sure what caused the wake at all. He then slept until 6.30am.

Thanks for your help.

[brightside]

Thanks, Stacey. Will try to increase A time and see what happens.

This morning he woke at 5.45 happy after just a half hour wake in the night. At the Daycare they tried to get him to nap at 8.45 but he wouldn't go. At 10.15 he had a nap of 1h 15. They are suggesting that he might be ready to work towards 1 long nap at lunch time. This is what he will have when he goes into the toddler room at 1 year. What do you think?