problems with water down method

[annsa]

Just wondered if anyone had any advice. My dd always goes to bed between 7 and 7.30pm. She wakes betwwen 2 and 3am for a feed 6 oz. Then goes straight back till 5 or 5.30am.
We decided to use water down method with the 2am feed.
Problem is, since we tried it 3 days of 6oz water/4 1/2 scoops. She wakes between 12.30am and 1am and takes 6oz. Then wakes at 4am for next feed.
She is taking a couple of bottles better during the day. But I'm not sure I should keep at it if she's waking earlier in the morning.
I could cope with the 5am wake up but 4am is still night time to me.
Should mention she takes 4 to 6 oz at every feed, 5am, 8am, 12pm, 3.30pm, 5.30pm, and won't usually take more than an oz after that 5.30 bottle.
She also gets a small solid(porridge) after 8am feed and some veg etc. after 3.30 feed.
Thinking of adding an extra spoon.
Maybe moving dinner to after 12pm feed and adding tea after 5.30pm feed.
What does anyone think.
Thanks

[Layla]

how old is she?

[annsa]

She's 5 months, loves solid feeds and was never very eager to take bottles. I only give her small amounts of solids so she'll take the milk feeds.

[Gabriella]

5 months seems a bit young for watered-down method... She might still genuinely NEED that nightfeed. She's also a bit young for eating too much solids, so I would not start her on three solid meals a day. Maybe changing formula brand would make her more eager on bottles?

Have you tired to dreamfeed her around 10.30pm? That might help her to go longer at night or even make it until the morning.

Do you have her on a routine during the day?

Good luck

[Gabriella]

5 months seems a bit young for watered-down method... She might still genuinely NEED that nightfeed. She's also a bit young for eating too much solids, so I would not start her on three solid meals a day. Maybe changing formula brand would make her more eager on bottles?

Have you tired to dreamfeed her around 10.30pm? That might help her to go longer at night or even make it until the morning.

Do you have her on a routine during the day?

Good luck

[Gabriella]

I'm sorry, I had some issues with computer, last reply was posted two times by mistake... 

[Layla]

Annsa - I think at 5 months she may actually be genuinely hungry  . I did the watering down formula when mine was just over 6 months but she was waking every 2-3 hrs for a feed and only taking no more than 4oz at a feed  . I think 2 night feeds at 5 months is quiet normal and introducing solids does not guarantee no night feeds. Eventually when I started watering down formula for my lo, we cut down to 2 night feeds (between 10pm-midnight and another feed at the early hrs of the morning (between 3-5am)). I honestly think night feeds (1-2 feeds) is quiet normal up to 9 months and for some even 12 months. NOT to say yours will but some babies need it, especially if they are going through a growth spurt (and there is another big one at 6 months).

I know its hard when your lo is not sleeping through (mine is still yet to  ) & you can try to water down the one at 2am like you stated but if she's up again at 4am, you might just have to wait it out and feed her...back to bed till 7am and you can get another 3hrs of sleep as well.

HTH
Layla

[annsa]

Thanks for the replies.
Yeah I kind of think she still might need it. I don't really mind giving her a feed then as she just goes straight back to sleep. I am totally in the dark as to what I should do for the best. She starts the day great,
6 oz at 2/3am
5oz at 5am
Back to bed at 6 -7/7.30
4 oz at 8.30/9am
and gradually it dwindles off to nothing.
nap in cot 9.30-11.30/12
Sometimes she won't take a feed here and it's nearly 2 or 3pm when she'll take it. She might have 45 mins nap after.
She might take a feed then at 5 or 6pm but more often she's just too tired. If I let her catnap at this point she won't wake up. Even if I force her awake she won't take a feed.
Likewise on the df, just won't let the bottle in her mouth.
On a good day she'll wake at 2am then 5am, on a bad day it's 12.30am, 2.30am,4.30am
As I said I don't mind doing the feed at night but not if it means she's not feeding in the day, that's why I tried the water down thing hoping she'd feed a bit better for the day.

She's wide awake to start the day at 5am sometimes 4am and by 4/5pm is exhausted and won't take a feed. She naps for at least 2 hours between 9.30am-12. But doesn't nap well the rest of the day. I don't even know where to start to get her back on track (we had been on a perfect 4hour easy and she just turned it on it's head.
I know it seems early to have her on solids but she loves them and only gets a very small amount. When she wasn't getting solids there was days when she only took 6oz for the whole day(nurse told me to start solids) i got worried she wasn't getting what she needed.

By the way she has her 2 bottom teeth since before christmas and had no bother really with them.

Sorry if this message is all over the place but that's how my head is, I can't think straight and everthing gets muddled.

[Gabriella]

Hi Annsa,

Is your LO on EASY? When does she nap? Can you post your routine?

[Layla]

Annsa, you want to aim at 4hr EASY and have her nap at around 9am, 1pm and then a catnap say anywhere between 4-5pm. I think the long morning nap may have something to do with her not sleeping well in the afternoon. Try not letting her sleep so long in the morning, waking her up after 1.5 hrs and then try putting her down for another nap close to 1pm. She might be a little cranky but within a few days should adjust. Have you tried w2s to extend her nap? My lo went through a phase where her 1st nap was great but she was stuck on 45 mins for the afternoon nap and was extremely cranky and wouldn't eat well either. I extended her A time and also did w2s and she sleeps well in the afternoon now.

So, if she wakes at 7am, your day would look more or less like this:

7am - awake
E 7.00 - bottle (give solids if you were told to 1hr after milk feed)
A 7.00 - 9.00 (start windown around 8:45, depending on your lo)
S 9.00 - 10.30
Y
E 11.00 - bottle (give solids after 1hr of milk feed)
A 11.00 - 13.00 (start windown 15 mins before, depending on your lo
S 13.00 - 14.30
Y
E 15.00 - bottle (solids 1hr after milk feed)
A 15.00 - 17.00
S 17.00 - 17.45 (start windown 15 mins before nap starts)
A - bath, bedtime routine
E - bottle before bed
S - 19:00
Might wake up at night for more feeds

You said that she was on 4hr easy before, so she might be ok with those A times but if not, start with 3.5 and then move onto 4hr. I put my lo to bed 15 mins earlier for every nap as a part of windown but otherwise thats what her day was like at around 5 months (well thats what we aimed for). It she's not eating well in the morning because she had a feed at 5am, then try watering down that feed or maybe offer her less so that she is hungry enough for the morning.

Also those nap times are not set. Mine will go down for her 2nd nap anywhere b/n 12.30-1pm, depending when she shows tired signs. But I would limit her 1st nap cause I think that might be another reason why she is not taking a longer pm nap.

HTH
Layla

[annsa]

Thanks again for the replies,
With regard to shortening her morning nap and putting her back to sleep around 1, that's out of the question as I leave for school run at 1.50,  so she needs to be awake and fed as it takes over an hour, I have tried to incorporate this as afternoon nap but she'll only sleep about 20/30 mins. I can't do w2s as I'm driving at this point and by the time I get back usually 3.10/3.20pm it's a bit late she'll want a feed and maybe take 45mins after that.
This was my routine when she was on a 4 hour easy.
Woke up at 5am
e; 5am
a; 5-6.20am
s; 6.30-8am
e;8am
a;8-10am
s;10-12
e;12pm
a;12-2pm (leave for school run)
s; 2-2.45/3pm (slept about 45 mins-hour)
e;3.30/3.45
a;3-5pm
s; sometimes she goes asleep at 5 other times it takes till 6 to get her off. No matter what time she sleeps or how long I allow her at this point she won't take another bottle maybe an oz.
On 2 occaisions she slept from 5 and didn't wake up even when we changed her for bed so we didn't try a bottle and she slept till 2am.
e;2am
e;5am
ONe day she just decided not to feed and never got back to the routine.
Now
5oz at 5am
Back to bed at 6 -7/7.30
4 oz at 8.30/9am
and gradually it dwindles off to nothing.
nap in cot 9.30-11.30/12
Sometimes she won't take a feed here and it's nearly 2 or 3pm when she'll take it. I'm on the school run here so sh'll cry till I get home at 3.10ish. She might have 45 mins nap after.
She might take a feed then at 5 or 6pm but more often she's just too tired. If I let her catnap at this point she won't wake up. Even if I force her awake she won't take a feed.
I really need her to feed better at this point but don't know how to go about it bearing in mind I'm on the road from 1.50-3.10/3.20.
This is without the small solid feeds. That's when i gave her a little solids, it didn't improve really and I spend my time wondering should I or shouldn't i be letting her have it.
Thanks so much for taking the time to answer my posts. It's a great help just to put it down in words.