Falling asleep for the first nap - what can I do better?

[anula]

Hi All,

My DS is 5 weeks old. We are trying to get him into EASY routine almost from day one.

This is where we are now:

- I am breastfeeding - DS is a good eater.

- DS sleeps in his own crib in our bedroom (all night and naps, except one nap which we try to have outside in a pram).

- He cries a lot during the day and evenings I think he might have some gas problems, not sure though. Elevating his mattrass a week ago help a bit with the afternoon nap.

- It is hard to put him to sleep during the day and evenings (no problem at night).

- During the day I have to wake him from his naps for feed (if he takes a nap at all...).

- I think he doesn't respond to shush (of shush/pat). He only begun to respond to pat a few days ago (I'm still not sure it works).

- DS uses paci a lot to get to sleep, but doesn't need it to stay asleep (I worry we might have an issue here later on - but it's okay for now I think).

- DS hated swaddle from day one, he sleeps in a sleeping bag now. Mostly on his back, but when he has problems settling down I put him on his tummy and pat his back.


This is our routine (give or take 30 min )

E: 7:30am
A: Just looking around the living room.
S: I put him in his crib after 10-20min A, although he doesn't seem tired. It is usually hard to get him to sleep at this time - sometimes it takes until 9:30am (but sometimes he won't sleep at all). Then I let him sleep till 10:30 (usually just over 1h sleep) and have to wake him up for the next feed.

E: 10:30am
A: Getting dressed for the walk in the pram.
S: Again, he won't sleep easily and he cries a lot in the pram. Sometimes he would sleep after 1h, sometimes not at all. Sometimes we give up the pram and I just try to get him to sleep in his crib again - same problems. Again, if he falls asleep I have to wake him up for the next feed.

E: 1:00pm
A: None
S: No problem at all, I just put him in his crib, paci in, no shush/pat, and after a few minutes he is asleep. This is his best nap, up to 2h. Then I wake him up for the next feed.

E: 3:30pm
A: None, he seems sooo sleepy after eating.
S: Sometimes no problem, sometimes big problems, sometimes he won't sleep at all

E: 5:30pm
S: We try a short nap here, but usually he won't sleep. If 4pm nap was skipped, we get lots of crying here.

Then we start bedtime routine:
A: Bath at 6:45pm
E: 7:00pm
S: Usually we have to deal with lots of crying. He is always asleep by 9pm, but 1h of crying is tough...

E: 10:00pm - I would love to DF him at this time and go to sleep myself, but it doesn't always work - sometimes he is so asleep I am not able to feed him (last 2 nights even diaper change didn't wake him up enough to feed, so I gave up and he woke up at 11:30pm by himself) - how do you DF a baby that is just soooo asleep?

Then he wakes up twice for feed: around 2am and around 5am. He doesn't eat long at night. He gets himself back to sleep easily at 2am and almost as easily at 5am. I hope to see the 2am wake up disappear soon - am I right?

I worry most about his naps - why won't he sleep in the morning? I try not to overtire him, but obviously if he skips his first and/or second nap during the day he is overtired by evening. Even worse if he skips his 4pm nap.

I want to help him get a good rest during the day, but I don't know how. I tried waiting for the sleepy cues (first yawn in the morning happens after about 1h of A - much too long for such a young baby I think), I tried putting him in his crib earlier or even just after feeding - nothing seems to work. Am I missing something? What can I do better?

I have a feeling if he won't fall asleep at once, he would take about 1h no matter what I do. I thought with shush/pat it would be easier as days go by, but I can't see any progress. Am I expecting too much of my 5wo? Please tell me if I do!

It hurts me a lot when he is cring so much and I'm getting all nervous about him loosing sleep (and then about myself loosing sleep... I think I am overtired ). So usually when he is cring I'm in tears too
Also, I have a feeling like the only thing I'm thinking about all day is "is DS going to sleep this time and how long wil it take to put him to sleep".

PS. English is not my native language, so please excuse any mistakes

(I changed the subject to better fit current status)

[shanaz]

Hi

I don't have an specific advice for you but I do remember feeling very similar to you when dd was 5 weeks old.  She was very similar and I think it too us til she was about 2.5 months old before she would go to sleep at night easily, we had to spend at least 45 mins with her most nights.

Re: The DF, my dd didn't take this properly til she was about 8-10 weeks old.  I tried on & off but it didn't seem to click til then. I think Tracy said in the book that it can be more difficult for breastfeeding mums.

Day naps - these were an issue for us too, lots of shh-pat and going for walks.  Do you notice any different about the afternoon nap that he goes down so easily for?  Some young babies just seem to be able to go for lots of A time, I think you should follow his cues if possible as long as he's contented and not upset.

Have you tried going off the routine for a couple of days and making notes of when he naturally wakes/sleeps etc?  You may find you notice a pattern. 

I think the main message I want to give you is that IT WILL GET EASIER, I know it doesn't feel like it now but it's true.  I think the other thing is that YOU will go with the flow more, I was such a worrier that I would just cry & cry but I slowly realised that DD was still going strong, was happy and contented and above all, thriving!  The fact that you are working soooo hard to put a routine in place to ensure his needs are met means that you won't fall into bad habits.

Also, make sure you nap when he sleeps if possible. 

Good luck, I'm thinking of you

Shanaz x

[anula]

Shanaz - Thank you for your reply!

I guess I have to repeat myself many times per day that "it will get easier"...

Re: going off the routine - I'm not sure how to do it. He wakes up by himself at about 7:30, then eats. Then if I just let him be he is happy for up to 1.5h and then just goes very quickly into crying mood. I tested it and if I let him stay up he won't sleep until next feed. I have not idea what is the best moment to put him to his crib after the first A time in the morning...

Anyway, yesterday things changed a bit - he woke up as usual, bf as usual, I put him to bed after 10min A time and he just fell asleep in almost no time! But, just for a change, he didn't sleep at all at 1pm, and slept very well at 4pm. Today in the morning I tried to do exactly same things as yesterday and he only slept after 1h and woke up crying after 30min So we don't have a consistent pattern any more...

I can's see any progress with sh/pat. Usually he would cry, then calm down a bit, then lay still for a while, then fuss a few times every 3-5 minutes and then either sleep (if 1h has passed and I'm lucky) or start crying again. I don't seem to notice the 3 stages of falling asleep or 10/20 minutes mark.

When he is crying sometimes I pick him up, sometimes not - it doesn't seem to make any difference. When he is fussing sometimes I would sh/pat, sometimes just hold my hand on him or do nothing - again, I didn't notice any difference. I also tried sh/pat the whole time after putting him in the crib - it takes 1h, same as without sh/pat.
It all feels like a random process that ends after 1h no matter what I do.

Am I doing this right? How should I progress from here?

Anula

[shanaz]

Hi Anula

Good to hear from you and glad you are repeating the mantra!

Hmmm, I need to have a think, I'm going to see if I can find my notes from when Seren was 5 wo, I can't remember very clearly.

I'll get back to you soon.

Shanaz

[shanaz]

Hi Anula

I'm so sorry I've not got back to you sooner - how are things?  Seren has been sick and I haven't had a chance to look at this properly for you.

I do think you should post in the sleep section as the moderators are much better at this sort of stuff than I am.

I think the key is consistency, choose a method and stick to it, and you need to keep doing it for every nap/sleep for at least a week.  That way you can tell if it's working or not.  I know that that can feel like forever but it will go quickly I promise you.  The shh-pat will be an unusual thing for him and it may take a while for him to get used to it.

Can I ask how you do it?  Do you have a routine for wind-down & putting into cot?  I know that DH & I noticed early on that Seren had definite cycles when falling asleep.  We would hold her close, (swaddled) making sure arms & legs were held firmly.  We would then just sit with her for at least 5 mins, she would cry for a little while then seem to settle and drop off, then she would jerk awake, cry and then do the same thing again, this would happen 3 times at which point she would nearly be asleep and then we could often put her down.  If she would start crying we would try shh-pat in the cot, keeping it going for at least 7 mins after she was calm and sleepy.  If she wouldn't calm after 5 mins of doing it in the cot, we would lift her out and hold her across our chest (she didn't like to be held vertically) and firmly pat her back and shhing.  Don't worry about the hour thing, Seren took around 45 mins to go to sleep for what felt like months!  It was pobably only weeks!  It just gradually got easier andn easier and now she goes off without any trauma at all - friends are always amazed.

You sound like you're doing great, I can't find my notes any earlier than 12 weeks old.  I remember that her A times were still very short at 5-6 weeks old though, just a bit of a look around and maybe a kick on her playmat before going up to start windown and bed routine. 

Let me know how you go.

Shanaz

[danlynclark]

Anula,
I just want to tell you how awesome you're doing!  My 7wo DS will not fall asleep for any naps without being held.   YOU are my hero.

Lyn

[anula]

Hi,

I'v been trying to post an update for quite a few days now, but I didn't have much Y time lately and every time I had the post almost ready things changed

DS is 7wo today and here is were we are:

Naps are still biggest issue. DS hardly ever goes to sleep for the first nap! If he does, it's 30min only. Which I don't understand, because I read in many posts that the first nap is usually the easiest and longest one. I'd like to figure this out. Other naps are hit or miss, so some days he only has one nap over 1h. In total he gets 13.5-14h of sleep per 24h, which seems too little to me.

Evenings improved a lot - DS goes to sleep fairly easly. The last few days it took just about 20 min! So DS is asleep for night before 8pm now.

I gave up DF as I wasn't able to do it properly at the time I wanted to, and now I go to sleep before 10pm myself anyway to catch up for the lost sleep.

DS only wakes for feed at midnight and then at 4-5am - and this is fine. At night he goes back to sleep fairly easily - in fact he often falls asleep at breast. Could it be a bad habit if it only happens at night? Should I wake him before putting him back into the crib, even at night? I would hate to do it in the middle of the night as I am desparate to go back to sleep myself...

One more issue about night sleep - between 6am and 7am DS makes a lot of noise. He is asleep (eyes closed every time we check), but very loud, even crying a bit every few minutes. We put him on his tummy to help him with gas and we keep giving him paci every few minutes and it seems to calm him a bit. Until a few days ago he would then wake up just after 7am, but the last few days he seems to enter deep sleep again about 7-7:15am. Then I wake him up before 8am - should I be doing this or should I let him sleep as long as he wants in the morning?

Anula

[anula]

Here is what we do as a sleep routine:

I take DS to bedroom, close curtains, tell him he is going to sleep now, put him into the sleeping sack in his crib, close the sleeping sack, give paci, start the "womb-like heartbeat generator" toy (it goes "SH-sh-SH-sh" at the rate of heartbeat). At this moment I usually just leave the room and 1-2 times per day he would quietly fall asleep within 10-20min. Otherwise he starts fussing/crying after 10-20min - sometimes it's enough to give him paci again and he sleeps. If not, I pick him up, hold him for a moment, start patting, put him in the crib on his tummy and continue patting. From this point anything can happen... sometimes he would sleep soon, sometimes after 1h, sometimes not at all. If he's not asleep after 1h, he becomes upset (overtired?) and starts crying loud, the rest of the day is tough then.

For sh/pat, I substituted "sh" with a "heartbeat generator" toy. I still have mixed feelings about whether the whole sh/pat thing works or not for DS. For example: few days ago in the afternoon, after I was doing sh/pat for about 1h (DS was fussing or crying most of the time), I left him for a moment to ask DH to come and take over the job. When I left DS he was crying a bit and didn't look like going to sleep. DH was there a minute later - and DS was already quiet and asleep! Great, but it looks like he didn't really need us to calm down and sleep. What should I think about it?

Do you have any suggestions about our routine? Do you think I should start patting him everytime I put him to bed? I don't want to do this, because (1) he sometimes falls asleep on his own and (2) sh/pat results are mixed for us anyway. But maybe I'm missing something?

Anula