Need clarification on sh sh pat! please help!

[RACHPEM]

Me again, we did have a better night last night, although hubby did night shift while i caught up on some well needed z'zz, this morning as soon as i walked in she started to be cranky, i am starting to think she hates me! i have put her down for a nap she is gurgling in cot so not sleeping! she is soon due for a feed so i will try again after that.  I need a little help with sh pat, i am not sure when i should put her down, stop patting leave room etc, i do have the book but i am worried i might be leaving it too late to put down or not long enough, how do you know? also last night it took me 2 hours to settle her, she did not give in so i fed her, but if she drops off just b4 a feed do i still wake to feed?also when do i time her naps from when she closes her eyes or when she is asleep(how do i know proper sleep)  as she normally wakes up when she realises she is in her cot? please help

[*Mona*]

hi

major major hugs to you 

I'm sorry you're not having the best of time now with your dd, but be sure she doesn't hate you!

I will move your post to naps section- they will help you more with pat/shush there I belive.

Monika

[momofclaire]

Rachpem-  I would hold her for about 5 min over your shoulder until you think she is comfortable and relaxed. Then I would lay her down.  If she starts to cry then shh pat her. The shh pat should calm her because very young babies can't concentrate on the shh pat and still cry.  If it doesn't calm her pick her up and shh pat her over your shoulder. As soon as you feel like she is relaxing lay her back down and continue.  In tracys book she says that she shh pat for 7-10 min after the baby was calm to be sure that its attention was on it.  Then slow the pat and stop the shhh. 
Hope that helps.

I am SURE she doesn't hate you.

Also how old is your lo?

[Layla]

Hi there - I'm sure your baby does not hate you!!!

I've noticed from your other thread that your lo is 5wo so the A times are around 1hr-15mins. Once she's up for the morning, you feed, diaper change, a little play and she has to be back in the cot by the end of that A time. So you would do the wind-down about 15mins before she's in the cot. Lay her down and like momofclair said if she's crying start shh/pat. I always gave myself 20mins or so to get my lo to sleep and if she was getting more hyped up, I would pick her up and relax her. If she would fall asleep in my arms, that was ok... she is still very young and you have a long way before she can learn to self-soothe. I carried Isabella on a sling for all naps up until she was 9wo and then started shh/pat. The ability of self-calming comes really around 12weeks or so. You can certainly try now but if your lo is not responding well to it then its ok to help her out in the sleep department. A nurse told me (at a sleep school) that between 0-6weeks you do whatever it takes for them to sleep, then from 6-8weeks, you start with some naps in the cot and with shh/pat and between 8-12 weeks, you try to have all naps in cot with shh/pat. I pretty much followed that and within about 1-2 weeks she was ok to go down on her own. Sleep at 5 weeks is still very irratic and naps can last from 45mins to 2hrs (from my experience). Try not to stand over her for 2hrs patting her cause if she does eventually fall asleep it will be out of exhaustion and not becuase she is calming down. When she closes her eyes, that would be the start of a nap but you might still have to stay with her to help her get through the 20min jolt and past to the next sleep cycle. Some babies don't like the shushing so maybe just try patting.

EASY did not look like true EASY in my case until my lo was around 5 months, which is when she started napping longer. Anything before that was easae or something like that.

You are doing a fantastic job and please don't think your lo hates you!!!

Good luck & hth
Layla

[RACHPEM]

Sorry to sound a little thick, but are you saying i should do the wind down an hour after waking, so this plus 15mins wind down would = 1.15mins? also i do sometimes hold my lo till she looks like she is asleep but after around 10 mins in her cot she is awake again should i hold her longer? she is not so bad in the day the only time i struggle with her is after her feed around 3.30am ? i would love 2 know what to do asap if poss so i can try it 2nite b4 i go mad?

Thankyou Rachael xxx

[Layla]

Not thick at all  ! Yes, so if her A time is 1hr15mins then do the winddown after 1hr of her being awake. Newborns enter into REM sleep when they fall asleep (lots of eye flickering and restless sleep & and they can be awakened almost straight away). If you want to hold her until she falls into deep sleep and then lay her down, you can... or you can just lay her down and stay with her so that when she wakes (which could be very soon after she's dozed off), you help her enter the next sleep stage. The sleep pattern becomes almost adult-like around 4months. You want to ultimately have her down in cot awake so that she does not get used to you holding her to sleep BUT I do think that when they are so little there is nothing wrong with helping them out here and there. I personally don't believe in babies being spoilt at such a young age but thats just me  .

Some babies only stay awake comfotably in the morning for 1hr, Jasmine had a very short A time in the morning for ages. The evenings are usually the hardest. Thet get so stimulated and if they haven't had a good nap day, it all builds up and in the evenings they are usually extremely cranky.

Is she hard to settle after 3.30am feed? Could it be gas maybe?

[RACHPEM]

More help needed! when u say u held ur lo for 20 mins till asleep was this after 15min wind down, my lo will close eyes as soon as i hold her close so is this sleepor wind down? this morn she would not settlev 20mins after holding in cot 10 awake put hand on tummy settled, then eyes popped open held again 20mins down 10 eyes open, she is like this regualary is she not ready for sleep or overtired, i really am confused! sometimes she does not cry once awake but is cranky again within 10-15 mins, what can i do differen? also as she had  about 40mins sleep (albeit very light and in my arms ) should i class this as Sleep? sorry again

[Layla]

Sounds like she is having a hard time settling down for a nap, sounds like overtiredness. How long are you keeping her awake for? What does your day look like in general? If she's down for 40mins, thats 1 cycle so it is a nap but you should try to get her through to the next sleep cycle (which is where you shh/pat her). It is still sleep but she would be better rested if she slept longer. Some babies only do 45mins nap here and there so if you can't get her through to the next cycle, don't keep her awake for the full A time. You watch her cues when she is this little. Jasmine would go very quickly from 1 yawn to overtired (and I mean within a matter of minutes) so I watched her very closely and at the 1st sign of tiredness she would be soothed to sleep. Jasmine's A times were MAX 30 mins at 5 weeks - she was an extremely sensitive baby so at 20min mark I was getting her ready for bed.

[RACHPEM]

She normally starts to fall asleep while eating so i normally only change her then start to wind down but she fussys like mad, unless i nurse her to sleep, she will wake up as soon as down, unless i hold her for her whole nap, or take her out in the car, i also think she is suffering from bad wind, so i am looking to change her formula, hv is coming 2morrow so i will chat 2 her. today she was awake at 5.30am  tried to settle her until 6.30am (only on my chest) fed, changed nappy, tried to put back down, tried unsuccesfully, fed again at 9.45am, slept with little intervention 1.5hr fed again, very little 2.5oz, she was rubbing eyes, changed nappy and changed clothes, tried to get to sleep, tried until 3pm had another small feed 2oz, took out in car, fell asleep for 2hr, fed again 5oz took over 1 hr, short nap in car on way back, tried to get her to sleep took around 1hr is asleep at moment!!!