Extend Too-Short Naps. Shush/Pat not working.......

[Tanners Mom]

Hi!
OK...so lately my LO is having a tough time with napping. His naps have ranged from 30 minutes to 45 minutes. I posted in the sleep board (b/c he was also having night waking and early waking issues) and one of the moderators suggested holding him during the jolts. I tried this yesterday and it worked! I stood there for over an hour for both naps and extended them both to 1.5 hours!

However...I extended the first one today to 50 minutes or so and then the phone rang!!!!!! DRAT!!!! It woke him up and I couldn't get him back to sleep. I would love some suggestions.

In the past - shush/pat really hasn't worked with him. If I get down next to his ear and shush like the book says - he turns his head to figure out where the sound is coming from and it seems to wake him up more.

At first, I'll just stand there with a hand on his arms and one on his legs and he'll let out some bursts of cries and lots of moaning and groaning noises. He'll roll his head back and forth and his eyes will be half closed so I'm hopeful. But then all of a sudden he'll start looking around. He'll stare at me and start cooing and smiling and then start looking around. He'll still let out bursts of cries but at that point he doesn't go back to sleep.

I've tried pu/pd and it sorta works. But here's the thing - he doesn't really scream cry during this time. He'll cry a bit, stop and go 'mmmmmmmmmm mmmmmm mmmmmmmm' and roll his head and then cry a bit. In the past, I've tried pu/pd when he does these cries but it seems to make him really upset! He stops crying for a SPLIT second and then he starts to cry REALLY hard and arch his back and kick his feet. So I put him down since he is fighting me. Typically he seems more ready to go to sleep when I do this - in fact, once he DID fall back to sleep for about 5 minutes. Should I keep doing pu/pd even though it seems to make him more upset? I'm just at a loss.

I'm going to try holding through the jolts at all his naps from here on out and hopefully won't have this happen much (and I finally figured out how to turn the ringer down on the phone!).

Oh...and if I walk away - he'll just continue to do those bursts of cries and moans for I don't know how long (I haven't let him go with that for more than 1/2 hour b/c it starts to feel like I'm letting him CIO.

BTW - Tanner is 4.5 months old.

Any ideas are welcome!!!

Thanks!
~Jaci

[Tanners Mom]

I forgot to mention that when I put him down for his naps - I walk away and he falls asleep on his own in 5-15 minutes (unless, of course, he is overtired - and then I stand there with a hand on him till he falls asleep).

So I know he is capable of independent sleep!

Thanks!

[*Natasha*]

COuld you please post your routine?

[Tanners Mom]

We've not really had a 'typical' day in awhile b/c of too-short naps and early wakings....however, this is what it WOULD look like (and I try to stick as close to it as possible):

E 7am Wake and BF
A time
S 9-10:30 or 11
E 11am (BF)
A time
S 1-2:30 or 3pm
E 3 pm (BF)
A time
S 5-5:30 or 5:45pm
Short A time then bath and read a story
E 7pm (BF)
S 7:30ish
Usually has one night waking for a feed...could be anytime during the night. (I don't do dreamfeed b/c I'm not usually still awake to do it!

Due to some too-short naps (like yesterday) - he was awake at 9:50pm and then I fed him at normal time (11am) and then his next nap was from 12:25 to 2:45pm so we were back on the normal routine at that point. Although he completely skipped his catnap - just laid there wide awake from 5:15 till 6pm.

I know we are dealing with overtired issues and that's why he's been waking early from naps and in the morning. But I'm hoping that if I can extend his naps then we can solve the other issues too.

Thanks!

[KathrynK]

hi Jaci
Sounds like holding him through the jolts can work for you- just hoping the phone doesn't ring next time 
This also worked for us- the only way I could extend dd's naps was to stop her waking in the first place. If she woke after 45 mins then nothing on this earth would get her back to sleep. If that happened then I stuck to her feeding routine as usual, but just had to juggle sleep to try to fit in an extra 45 min nap somewhere.
If he does wake after 45 mins are you shortening his A time or going another full 2- 2.5 hours until his next nap? The reason I ask is that dd couldn't do a full A time on short naps so I would have her back in bed after 1.75-2 hours max. If I kept her up for a "full" A time then she would end up getting overtired- maybe this is what your lo is experiencing, just a thought.
Some babies just insist on 45 mins nap and eventually most grow outof it. Does he wake happy or is he upset on waking?
kathryn x

[Tanners Mom]

Hi Kathryn!
Thanks for the reply!

Yes...holding through the jolts has been working good - just got done holding his arms and legs for over 1.5 hours! But he napped for 2 hours!!

I do usually keep him up for 2 hours after he wakes from a short nap. But next time I'll put him down earlier and see if that helps.

As for how he wakes - sometimes he starts to cry immediately and other times he doesn't. But usually, if I leave him he'll eventually start to fuss and roll his head and let out short bursts of cries but never gets back to sleep.

Thanks again for your thoughts - I hadn't thought of fitting in an extra nap on those days either!
~Jaci

[KathrynK]

hi Jaci
If he was waking happy from all naps, I would say don't worry too much. But if he's crying then he's probably still tired but can't get himself back off to sleep so gets upset. I think sticking with the holding through the jolts is the right thing to do for the time being. It does get soooooo tedious after a while- some days we would have friends round and I would disappear for an hour or more to help Sophie sleep- they all thought I was bonkers! But the days I left her she would wake after 45 mins like clockwork, so it needed to be done! (Once I got so comfy I actually fell asleep at the side of her cot, holding her arms & legs- she woke up before I did, hee hee  )
Don't get discouraged, either, i f it doesn't work every time- it wasn't 100% for us, some days she wouldn't jolt but her eyes would just ping open after 45 mins and she would spot me and want to play 
let us know how you get on xx

[Tanners Mom]

Hi Kathryn!
Oh...how wonderful to hear that I'm not the only crazy Mama standing there holding my child down so he'll sleep! Just today, I was standing there smiling - thinking what a great story this will make someday!!

I just got done with nap #2 - it's been 1.5 hours so I left as he seems really out! He woke at the 40 minute mark and squirmed all over and was looking at me and cooing and I thought - uh oh...I'm busted!!! He's going to think it's playtime! So I refused to make eye contact with him - just looked at the wall and closed my eyes. It worked!! 5 minutes later his eyes drifted shut again and he fell back to sleep! Yippee!

OK...so any tips on getting comfy while doing this? Various parts of me start falling to sleep after standing there so long! 

Also - when did you know you didn't have to do this anymore? I'm starting to keep a log of his naps (when he jolts and how 'awake' he gets during them) and I'm hoping this will help me know when I don't need to be there as long and eventually not at all.

Thanks!
~Jaci

[KathrynK]

Also - when did you know you didn't have to do this anymore? I'm starting to keep a log of his naps (when he jolts and how 'awake' he gets during them) and I'm hoping this will help me know when I don't need to be there as long and eventually not at all.

think that's a really good idea

He woke at the 40 minute mark and squirmed all over and was looking at me and cooing and I thought - uh oh...I'm busted!!! He's going to think it's playtime! So I refused to make eye contact with him - just looked at the wall and closed my eyes. It worked!! 5 minutes later his eyes drifted shut again and he fell back to sleep! Yippee!

well, this is sort of what happened to us when Sophie started to grow out of it. She was 5.5 months at the time. I heard her on the monitor wake after 45 mins and start chatting to herself, and was going to go to get her but I was in the middle of doing something so left her for 10 mins. By the time I went in she had gone back to sleep! By herself! for the first time EVER! I was very excited by this, as you can imagine. So then I stopped interfering with her naps and left her to get on with it, to see if she could get herself off to sleep again. And you know what? 9 times out of 10, she did! After a couple of weeks she stopped waking at all and just slept for the full 90 mins.
They do say many babies grow out of it, and perhaps this is what happened with Sophie. But I also firmly believe that the time I spent with her helping her to get through the jolts and into the next sleep phase really helped. For some babies, it's enough to do this for a few weeks and they quickly learn to do it by themselves. For some, they always need holding or else they ping awake every time. I would keep at it for the moment, as you've only just started, and maybe sometime over the next couple of weeks let him have a go by himself- the fact that he already fell back asleep once is brilliant and means he can do it. And if you are keeping a log you will see very quickly if he can do this on a regular basis.

As far as getting comfy goes- I used to leave the drop-side down on the cot and pull up a chair next to it. It wasn't totally comfy but was better than standing. One time I sat with the cot rail cutting into my underarm but was terrified to move in case I woke her, and when I eventually decided I could creep away, I had lost all feeling to my right arm and it was like a dead weight- ow ow ow. The things we do for our lo's- we must be mad