Author Topic: 2 year old still not sleeping well - trying WI/WO!  (Read 1359 times)

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Offline Lucy's mum1

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2 year old still not sleeping well - trying WI/WO!
« on: April 10, 2007, 21:31:02 pm »
Hello! Please help...  we are doing WI/WO with our 2 year old Lucy to try and teach her to settle herself to sleep.  We have been through a whole range of sleep problems since she was born which started with me breastfeeding/rocking etc her to sleep for the first year or so which resulted in multiple wakings a night and very short erratic naps from when she was about 4 months.  In the last few months we have managed to solve many of these problems.  I weaned her from breastfeeding, stopped rocking her and eventually she would go to sleep in her cot as long as one of us was sitting by the cot holding her hand and singing to her.  She even started sleeping through from 8pm-6am generally although sometimes waking just once and sleeping a good 2 hours at lunch... bliss for us!!! 

But 15 or so minutes sitting by her while she went to sleep has recently turned into more like an hour or so a time to get her to sleep and the last week or two she hasnt actually been to sleep before 8.30pm.  The later she goes to sleep, the earlier she wakes and she has got back into waking at 5.30am and also the last 2 nights has also woken at 2am!!  arrgh it feels like we are going back to the old days.... i'm shattered and feel very fed up that 2 years on from giving birth i'm still getting hardly any sleep!!!

Anyway tonight is the 4th night that we have tried WI/WO.  We have also been doing it for her afternoon nap but i have to confess that when she has woken at 2am the last two nights i have just given her milk to get back to sleep so maybe that is completely defeating what we are doing??!  It just seems so much harder to do in the middle of the night.

The WI/WO started better than expected- I just told her I was going to be tidying up outside her room and to call if she needed me.  Actually it only took me going in about 3 times the first 4 times before she went to sleep. But the 3rd and 4th night have been much harder. Tonight we started it at 7.30pm and she didnt go to sleep till about 9pm and both last night and tonight has got herself very upset when I've tried to leave her.

Re-reading how to do WI/WO I've realised I'm not actually doing it strictly by the book - I have picked her up a few times when she's got really upset and also I dont leave the room again until she has calmed down. By doing this does it mean it wont work?? I'm wavering already on whether I should be continuing doing what I'm doing but I know I should try it for at least 2 weeks... 

I just wondered is it normal for it to start off OK and then seem to get worse?  It seems to be a vicious cycle- if she goes to sleep late, she's overtired and wakes in the night and very early morning ie 5.30am which means she's even more tired and difficult to settle at lunchtime and night-time etc.

Also generally I've noticed that Lucy rarely sleeps more than 10 hours at night and often more like 9.5 hours - this really does seem too short for a child of her age although overall looking at the info on this site she probably does get enough sleep overall ie 11.5-12 hours.  Am I letting her sleep too long at lunch by letting her have 2 - 2.5 hours?  I find she's too tired if she only has 1 hour but maybe over time  she would adjust to sleep longer at night if I cut her nap short?  She always seems grumpy and still tired when she wakes in the morning - I just wish she would sleep in later!!

At the moment her schedule is like this:

5.30-6am wake
7am breakfast
10.30am snack
12pm lunch
1pm -3/3.30pm sleep
3.30pm snack
5-5.30pm dinner
6.30pm bath
7.30-7.45 light off but generally not asleep till 8-8.15

I guess I am just looking for some guidance on whether I am doing the right thing and whether I need to give it longer to work and also how I can adjust her sleeps etc to help her sleep better - any help anyone can give me would be much appreciated as at the moment I am totally confused on what to do!!
Sara x

Offline Layla

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Re: 2 year old still not sleeping well - trying WI/WO!
« Reply #1 on: April 10, 2007, 23:24:43 pm »
Hi Sara. First of HUGS!!! Its really hard when they aren't sleeping well, tired & cranky all day but with a little help I know this will get better & you'll have your happy toddler back in no time  ;D.

Ok, a few things came to my mind when reading your post.

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But 15 or so minutes sitting by her while she went to sleep has recently turned into more like an hour or so a time to get her to sleep and the last week or two she hasnt actually been to sleep before 8.30pm.  The later she goes to sleep, the earlier she wakes and she has got back into waking at 5.30am and also the last 2 nights has also woken at 2am!!  arrgh it feels like we are going back to the old days.... i'm shattered and feel very fed up that 2 years on from giving birth i'm still getting hardly any sleep!!!

Anyway tonight is the 4th night that we have tried WI/WO.  We have also been doing it for her afternoon nap but i have to confess that when she has woken at 2am the last two nights i have just given her milk to get back to sleep so maybe that is completely defeating what we are doing??!  It just seems so much harder to do in the middle of the night.

She is obviously very overtired. Later bedtimes and poor sleep in general results in early morning wake ups. The very first thing I would do is cut out the milk at night. I know its waaay harder to deal with a crying baby at night but you are kind of defeating the purpose and confusing her because in the end you are teaching her that when she wakes and cries at night, she needs milk to return back to bed. You can either try watering down the bottle until you get to just water or I would just cut the bottle out alltogether. When she wakes at night you would continue with wi/wo without any props. That also means no picking up, no rocking or anything other than checking on her and then leaving, count, etc.... It might seem harsh but she will soon learn that if/when she wakes at night she is to return back to sleep without help.

Many find that there is regression with wi/wo or other sleep training methods. So its not uncommon for you to have to repeat the process for longer on the 4th night (or even 2 weeks later). Just be consistent whenever she wakes and do the same thing.

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The WI/WO started better than expected- I just told her I was going to be tidying up outside her room and to call if she needed me.  Actually it only took me going in about 3 times the first 4 times before she went to sleep. But the 3rd and 4th night have been much harder. Tonight we started it at 7.30pm and she didnt go to sleep till about 9pm and both last night and tonight has got herself very upset when I've tried to leave her.
I actually did this as well when mine was 14mo. I modified it a little and would stay with her until she would settle and then leave. If you do this, in my opinion its ok... again as long as you leave her in the cot and are not patting her to sleep or anything like that. But when I'd leave I did count and then return. So, I do think its ok to modify wi/wo a little.

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Also generally I've noticed that Lucy rarely sleeps more than 10 hours at night and often more like 9.5 hours - this really does seem too short for a child of her age although overall looking at the info on this site she probably does get enough sleep overall ie 11.5-12 hours.  Am I letting her sleep too long at lunch by letting her have 2 - 2.5 hours?  I find she's too tired if she only has 1 hour but maybe over time  she would adjust to sleep longer at night if I cut her nap short?  She always seems grumpy and still tired when she wakes in the morning - I just wish she would sleep in later!!

The av sleep for toddlers is 13hrs. About 11hrs at night and 2hrs during the day. The nap can range through from 1.5-2.5hrs. I would not wake her up from the nap. 1hr is definitely not enough. 2-2.5hrs is fine in my opinion.

I would though change the timing of the nap. I believe 1pm is way too late, especially if she is waking early. This is something I would aim for:

5.30am - wake for the day (which will hopefully dissapear once she is better rested)
no later than 12pm - nap (2hrs)
6.30/7pm - bedtime.

I would definitely bring the bedtime forward at least 30mins so that she can catch up on some sleep. Earlier bedtime often fixes the early wakings. Try for about 4 days or until she is sleeping better and then you can look at pushing her day again. The average awake times is about 5.5hrs (although some can be pushed to 6hrs at the age of 2). So really the nap should begin around 11.30am. Play with the times a little and see how she does. Put her to nap for a couple of days earlier than 12pm and then push it to midday in about a week. I think alot of the overtiredness is from the late nap as well.

Hth & let me know how you go
Layla



20/06/2012 - my angel baby

Offline Lucy's mum1

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Re: 2 year old still not sleeping well - trying WI/WO!
« Reply #2 on: April 12, 2007, 20:45:28 pm »
Thanks so much for all the advice... what you have said really makes sense.  I think Lucy is very overtired all the time and I just need to cut out giving her the milk in the night which is going to be difficult but I'm going to try what you said watering it down.  She has gone through long periods of sleeping for 10 hours so i know she can do that, she's got stuck in a habit again of waking for milk and also cos I've never completely sorted the sleep problem it just reverts back every time we have a set back like illness or something.  Anyway the WI/WO has gone the last couple of days.  yesterday for the first time for her afternoon sleep i put her down walked out and didnt hear a peep for just over 2 hours!!!  but then the evening was still difficult (although it was better than before) but tonight I put her down, she was fine then a few minutes later started to cry.  I went in comforted her and came out and she must have gone to sleep on her own as I've heard nothing since!!! I'm just hoping we're starting to crack the problem now of having to stay with her while she goes to sleep and then i can start looking at the early waking etc. 

I honestly couldnt believe it tonight - its the first time in 2 years since she was born that I think she has pretty much gone to sleep on her own without me having to be in with her!!

Anyway thanks very much for taking the time to help, I'm sure we've got a long way to go but I'm starting to feel more positive now it seems like she is starting to improve!!  Now I just need a decent night's sleep and there'll be no stopping me!
Sara

Offline Layla

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Re: 2 year old still not sleeping well - trying WI/WO!
« Reply #3 on: April 12, 2007, 20:56:51 pm »
Sara, that sounds wonderful!!!

Just remember, earlier nap time (to avoid o/t) and an earlier bedtime for a few days for catch up.

Keep me posted please
Layla :-*



20/06/2012 - my angel baby