Help - short napper now dropped a nap!

[Lisa J]

My 8 month old usually has 45 min naps, and recently has dropped her 3rd nap (we tried alot to keep it in but she was having none of it).  She is now fighting her other naps.  Last night she woke up 6 times.  I've been told that this is due to overtiredness.  It's difficult to lengthen her naps because she is wide awake and will just play with my hand if I try to get her back to sleep.  For the past few weeks some of her naps have lengthened to 1 1/2 hrs, or so.  I can handle the struggle and time change of the naps but the night wakings are killing me!  Any suggestions?  Oh, I've tried w2s a few times but no joy.

7am - wake and bf
8am- breakfast
9.30 - 10 - ish (this morning 11.20!) nap
10.15 (yesterday 11.15!) wake
11.00 - bf
12.00 ish lunch
1.30 - 2.00 - nap (today 3.15!)
3.00 - bf
4.30 dinner
6.30 breast feed and falls asleep on me then into bed about 7pm.  I've tried changing this but she won't feed properly unless in her bedroom (too interested in things) and then she just can't help but fall asleep.
I dropped the dream feed last night but she wasn't waking up hungry, she seems to struggle to get herself back to sleep.

[KathrynK]

hi Lisa
I've seen some of your other posts and am sorry to hear you are still having some sleep trouble. It all just seems so much worse when you are sleep deprived, so here's a hug coming your way. 
I think there's a few different things in the mix here. Firstly, yes the short naps will cause overtiredness. But she is lengthening some naps, so she can do it. It seems that if she wakes she is unlikely to go back to sleep. So the thing to do is stop her waking in the first place. I would recommend giving w2s another go- bear in mind you need to be consistent and do it for every nap for a good number of days before it may take effect. It's hard work but pays off if you can stick at it.
Also I think if she is used to falling asleep on the breast that will cause some problems too as she will need you to get back to sleep when she wakes at night. When she falls asleep at that last feed, have you tried waking her just before you put her into bed, so she goes down awake? It's amazing how easy it is for babies to learn sleep associations and how they can differentiate between naps and night sleep. My friend's lo will go down awake in his cot for all naps, sleep like a dream and if he wakes can put himself back to sleep. At night, it's a different story- he will only go to sleep on my friend's bed with her there, and then she transfers him asleep to his cot. If he wakes in the night he can't resettle and she has to take him in with her. What I'm trying to say is that maybe she has learnt that mummy will feed her back to sleep in the night when she wakes and that's why she's not settling.
I'm no expert on breastfeeding or props but will ask the other mods to have a look at your post and see if they can help
kathryn

[Lisa J]

Thanks, Kathryn. I appreciate your reply.

[*Natasha*]

At what time during the nap do you go in to do W2S? Sometimes it takes a few goes to get it to work and as Kathryn said you need to be consistant with it for all naps for 3-4days at least.

[Samuel's mum]

At night - how do you settle her back to sleep? Does she use the breast to fall asleep several times a night?

If so, during any feed where she falls asleep on the breast, you could use the gentle removal technique to try and get her to rely less on it as a prop:

https://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=52857.0

(It's a technique also described by Tracy in BW for Toddlers in Leanne's case study).

Babies that rely on the breast as a prop will wake with every sleep cycle looking for the breast whether or not they are hungry. As soon as they get into a lighter sleep they jerk awake seeking the breast that was just there. Using gentle removal technique can alleviate that problem. And the wakings will lessen.

[daisymelan]

Just as another thought (I don't know your history) have you tried PU/PD?  I  think pat/shh generally stops being effective by this age, but not always.

[Lisa J]

I don't feed her when she wakes at night.  I only pick her up if she really is desperate but usually she will go back to sleep by comforting her in her cot.  If I do pick her up I don't let her fall asleep on my, so yes I do pu/pd.
I have only tried w2s a few times and went in at 25 and 30 mins.  She either woke right up (even though I was gentle) or did the usual 45 mins.

[KathrynK]

Hi Lisa
it's great that she can fall back to sleep at night without feeding. (and I admire you for having the stamina to do pu/pd in the middle of the night- many don't!)
I would recommend giving W2S another go to prevent her waking at 45 mins. Don't expect miracles at once and be consistent for a while - that could mean at least a week or more of doing all naps. Yes it will be hard but hopefully worth it in the long run. You have already seen success with using pu/pd to get her to fall asleep independently so this is just the next step.