Getting a spirited baby to sleep again after a 30 min nap

[Spring chicken]

Hi

This is my first post, and I've scanned the recent pages for answers, but can't quite find something that hits the nail on the head...here goes..feel free to move me etc

I have a 6 month old spirited/ text book baby. We didn't discover the BW techniques until about a month ago when a friend recommended them. We started him on EASY straight away, which went very well, as all I had to do was change from ESA to EAS. He is a different baby. 4 days ago we bit the bullet and started using the sshhing and PU/PD techniques for the following reasons:

- to stop using the dummy as a prop
- to progress from a 3 hour to 4 hour feed
- to get him to sleep through the night (has been waking for the dummy several times a night)
- to extent his 30-45 min naps

it has gone extremely well; the dummy is obsolete and seems like he doesn't want it at night, the feeds have happened by themselves, he slept through the night the last 2 nights, so we're really over the moon...and very lucky!  I think he was actually on his way, but didn't quite know how to get there.

HOWEVER...the problem is the naps. They are never more than 30-45 mins long, and he wakes up crying and what I think is tired. As a spirited baby, he seems to be desperate to not miss out on anything that's happening. On day 1, I managed to get him to sleep for 1+1 hour with PU/PD, but since then, the naps have been a complete nightmare. He goes to sleep with not too much fuss (about 5-10 mins), (watching for the tired window), but then when he wakes up, and I try to get him to sleep again, and he goes completely hysterical. Today he was so overtired, and screamed until he was inconsolable.  :'(He is hoarse from all the screaming. I have persevered with this the first few days, but we are really beginning to wonder if this is good for him. He seems better if I pick him up and let him play after the the 30-45 mins nap. My husband says that maybe he doesn't need the sleep.... He has always slept very little during the day since birth, and now at night sleeps from 18.30 until 06.30 with a dreamfeed at 10.30, so gets now 12 hours during the night. The routines are different, as it depends upon when he wakes up, which can be anything from between 05.30 to 07.00 (it's been 05.30 since he slept through the night). A typical day is EASAE, so he can end up with an activity time of 3.5 to 4 hours. He of course gets very tired, but seems to thrive on being in activity and being social. I have nearly given up on taking him out in the pram, as when he wakes up after 30 mins, he screams until he is lifted out, and can smile at people and jump about. This makes it impossible to go on any longer walks. I am starting to feel like I am forcing him to sleep when he doesn't want to....do babies NEED so much sleep during the day?? Should I persevere?? Another thing is that he doesn't seem to have replaced the dummy with anything else, so he seems desperate to suck on something. He has a little teddy bear which he clutches sometimes and a muslin cloth which he has liked during the past...but they don't help...and also can these become props?

Any advice would be appreciated...

Thanks!

[Jewell]

welcome to the BW site spring chicken,

I also has a Spirited/touchy and he is now 8 months old and is now doing 45 min naps sometimes i get him up if I've tried to put him back to sleep for about 20mins and sometimes i keep going.....i try to gauge if his is really tried or if i think he would handle being up again.

It sounds like you are reading your LO ones cues very well, and if your LO is not rubbing his eyes or yawning he may just not need that much sleep during the day

My LO used to have a dummy and has not replaced with anything so i wouldn't worry if he needs something he will find it.

Hugs

[barryzchick]

You have described my daughter perfectly... in fact, I couldn't have worded it better.  She does basically 2 40 minute naps a day.  Someone once told me that if the baby wakes up crying then it means she is still tired and that a baby couldn't possibly be satisfied with just 40 minutes... so wanting to be a good mom, I always try to get her back to sleep.  However, so far, I have tried PU/PD for over an hour after the 30/40 minute nap and she almost never goes back to a deep sleep.  When I bring her out of her room she immediately stops crying and is happy.  (I do think she's still a bit tired) But as you said, she does get tired toward the end of the EASASY cycle - especially the one before her dinner.  I don't know what to do either... the latest BW book does say, though that some babies just don't sleep as much as others - and you can't help it!

Sorry, I am not much help.... hopefully though, it's as comforting to you as it is to me to know that there are a few people who can relate!

Good luck!

[Ben Mommy]

I am new to the BW board but have been doing EASY with my 14 week old son since day 1.  This 45 minute napping describes my son to a tee.  I don't have any answers either but I'm hoping to get some on this message board.  The thing that I am wondering is how do you know if they need longer naps or not?  My LO wakes up cranky and seems tired still but if I try to continue with PU/PD (which I only started this week since you aren't supposed to do it before 3 months) he freaks out.  I've done it up to an hour and eventually give up.  Sometimes he is up for 2 hours before his next feed.  If I bring him out of the room he seems okay and calms down but does seem a little tired still.  The thing that makes me think he does need more is that I was using a prop 
(the swing) before I started putting him in the crib for naps and he would sleep for 2 hours in the a.m and sometimes 1-2 hours in the p.m and a catnap.  Perfect EASY schedule!  Only it was dependent an him sleeping in his swing.  I don't know how to get him to take his 2 hour nap anymore now that I've been putting him in the crib.  I realize this has to do with prop dependency and he probably has not learned how to settle himself  once he wakes but how do I fix it??  Will PU/PD work eventually?  I've only just started it 2 days ago and have my doubts already.
Any advice would be appreciated...I'm totally at a loss of what to do.

[malialeanne]

Hello Spring Chicken,

Welcome to the boards. Great job getting starting on a routine and getting rid of the dummy!

A six month old baby who is sleeping 12 hours at night is not likely to need 2 2 hour naps plus a catnap. Around 13-14 hours of total sleep is typical for this age. At his age, especially with the good night sleep, he can very likely handle A times of 2.5 hours or longer, up to 3.5 hours right before bed (even a bit longer if you have no catnap).

The goal of PU/PD is to teach independent sleep. It sounds like your son can sleep quite well on his own, so it's more likely that his routine needs tweaking. Once A times are right and over/undertiredness is corrected, short naps often sort out on their own. Of course, there are a few babies, and yours might be one, who don't sleep a lot during the day.

I know it's hard to have much of a routine with short naps. What are your A times like?

Sleep cannot be forced when it's not needed--it's physiologically impossible. So if your son fights but eventually does fall asleep, it's because he needs the sleep.

Ben's Mommy, I answered your other post, so hopefully we can sort out your stuff over there.

Malia