re: help with four month old

[lorarend]

My four month old (18 wks to be exact) used to just wake up 2 or 3x  a night for feedings (maybe one late night feeding if he went to bed early, one mid night feeding around 1 or 2, and one early feeding around 4-5).  For the past couple of weeks, he wakes up every 1-2 hours.  I still just feed him the 2x but it doesn't seem to make a difference.  I used to nurse him to sleep.  Now that I've been trying to get him on EASY, he is much worse.  I give him a pacifier which falls out while he's sleeping, but when he wakes up, I have to put it back in to get him back to sleep.  This works great but the problem is that he keeps waking up an hour or two later.  Sometimes, it is definitely because he rolled over on his tummy and can't get back over.  Most of the time, there is no apparent reason for his awakenings.  I put him to bed around 8 and he wakes up for good around 8.  Actually, I often wake him up around 8.  He is exhausted most of the time and does not nap well during the day either.  I'm still trying to get his morning nap to develop beyond 40 minutes.  Any advice will be much appreciated.

[Layla]

Hi & welcome!

Could you tell me what his daytime schedule looks like (approx). How often are you feeding him? How many times does he nap, etc...

Does he seem to need the paci to fall asleep when napping? Would you be willing to get rid of the paci if its becoming a prop?

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Layla

[lorarend]

He really has no nap schedule other than going to sleep every 1 1/2 to 2 hours during the day.  I used to have to bounce him to sleep in the bouncy chair.  Now he can sleep in a crib which is good progress.  I've been working hard to try to lengthen his naps and used the pacifier to try to do that during the day but may have created a monster with that.  They are usually only a half-hour or so, but I have had some longer ones with time.  I try to get him to bed by 7:30 - 8:00 every night now and he usually wakes up by 7:45 or so..  I used to put him down later - whenever it worked out for breast feeding.  At least then he went down without anything in his mouth and slept stretches of 4 or sometimes even 7 hours.  Now that my pediatrician told me to separate breastfeeding and sleep, the only way I can get him to sleep is with the pacifier.  Life was a lot more manageable on just a couple of night time awakenings versus every hour.  I was told to that the pacifier was easier by a few different people b/c you can just pop it back in his mouth.  That would be fine if he didn't wake up every hour.  Perhaps the pacifier is the issue but I'm not sure.  I was using it and the breastfeeding for a while and there weren't any problems, but now it's just the pacifier as the nighttime prop so that might be it.  I wish he could just go back to sleep after nursing again - it was easier!  The other problem is that he flips over on his belly and wakes up because of that.  Any advice is great!

[Layla]

I would encourage a routine of some sort. For a 4mo, you would be on 4hr EASY with approx 4 naps (maybe even 3). Here's the link to sample EASY routines for los of your age: https://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=10385.0

How often does he eat? Do you BF him for naps? Its important that he learns how to fall alseep without the breast or the paci (if the paci is a prop). Have you tried shh/pat to extend naps rather than putting the paci in or for night wakings?

He could be taking short naps becuase he is overtired. If he's only taking a short 30-45min nap then he wouldnt be able to stay up 2hrs.... so I would reduce the A time. Its hard around this age as well becuase they can be developmentally short nappers (45mins at a time), so if you can't extend a nap, I would lessen the A time. How is he when he wakes? Crying & still seems to NEED a nap or happy???

When he wakes at night, what is he like? Is he fussy, cooing, crying? Have you tried leaving him to see if he will settle on his own???

Finally with him rolling over, unfortunately until he can roll on his own, all you can do is roll him back. If its really having an effect on naps & nightsleep (which any milestone can), you can get one of those wedges that will stop him over from rolling until he can roll back himself.

Layla

[lorarend]

I'm working hard on a routine.  I'm trying the EASY but get off schedule sometimes depending on how long/short his naps are - or how hungry he is.  He eats approximately every 2 1/2 hours.  I try to get him to feed on both breasts so he drinks more at a time, but he stops after one breast.  He usually only feeds for 5-7 minutes now and is then done.  He is a big baby - 95th %ile in height and weight.  I think I'll try to see a lactation specialist to find out exactly how much he's really getting.  The problem could be an overactive letdown I suppose and he's therefore not getting the hind milk.  I'll try to shoot for a visit with the nurses next week.

He only falls asleep with the pacifier for naps or the breast.  I've been trying to stop having him fall asleep at the breast for naps and nighttime.  However, I think the pacifier makes it worse b/c then he always has something in his mouth once he's in the crib.  Night wakings have been much worse since I stopped feeding him upon awakenings so I started back up with feeding him whenever he woke last night (bedtime at 8 - feeds at 10:30, 1:30, and 4:30). It did stretch his night wakings from every 1-2 hours to every 3 hours last night which was better for me.  He was doing much better a month or so ago so maybe all this new training has thrown him off.   He used to go to bed much later - like 9 - 9:30 instead of 8:00 and would often sleep until 4 AM.  Maybe I need to try that again but the books say he should have an early bed time by now?  Maybe he also just needs to sleep in past 8:00?  I tend to wake him by 7:45 - 8:00 thinking it will be better for nap times.   I've been trying to get him into a mold that maybe he's just not ready for yet.  It's so hard trying to do the right thing.

Sometimes he wakes up from naps happy but is often groggy and unhappy upon awakenings.  Today he took an hour long nap at 9:30 (after waking at 7:45) and was happy.  The next three naps were 30 or 40 minutes and he woke up cranky.

I have tried letting him settle on his own, but he eventually cries and gets too worked up.  I tried the pat and shush a few times and I couldn't settle him down.  I'm taking a class right now and need to work on that during his nap times.  Once it's finished in a couple of weeks, I may try some pat/shush again or PU/PD.  I also start back to work in a month so would like to improve some of these issues soon.

Thanks for your help and advice!  Any more insight is greatly appreciated!

[Layla]

I don't think a later bedtime will help. He should be doing about 11hrs at night so if you put him down later, he gets less sleep at night & overtiredness accumulates. Him eating every 2.5hrs is more like snacking. Try to stretch the feedings out so that they are at least 3hrs apart. Usually 4mo is on 4hr EASY - that is, feedings are every 4hrs but not all BF babies can manage a long stretch like that so I would aim for 3hrs for now. Try distracting him for 10-15mins until you get to that time. He will then take more in at every feed.

The naps will fall into place, I promise . The morning nap is usually the 1st to establish & the easiest to settle them for becuase its more like continuation of night sleep. Its not uncommon for them to be taking a good morning nap & the rest be 45mins long. All you can do really is try shh/pat to settle them back but if he's not having any of it say 30mins into shh/pat, pick him up & go on about your day. Still space the feedings out & sometimes it will be that he needs a feed right before the next nap. Try not to let him fall alseep at the breast if thats the case. It might be true EASY for a while. With us, things only came together at 5-6months, which was when she was done with 45 min naps

You might also want to have a look at the 45min-nap thread for some more support.
https://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=69789.0

[lorarend]

Thanks for your support.  It's tough because he just doesn't sleep without BF or a pacifier.  He gets upset when he is tired and cries and fusses.  The pacifier calms him down and then knocks him out.  He does continue to sleep after it falls out.  THe problem is when he wakes up, he needs it or breastfeeding to get back to sleep.  I figured it's better than no sleep even though it's a prop.  The whole process of going to sleep really seems to upset him and the pacifier does wonders for that.  He only sleeps about 13 hours in a 12 hour period so he's so in need of as much sleep as possible.  It will be interesting to try another method (outside of car rides - it used to be bouncing in the bouncy chair when he was newborn).  I just don't see him settling with that, but perhaps in time.  I'll shoot for at least a 3 hour stretch of feed for now.  Thanks again!

[Layla]

You can use the paci as part of the windown for now to calm him down but take it out before he falls asleep so that he is doing the last part on his own. He's having a hard time falling asleep at the moment without the paci becuase he's developed an association with it.

Have a look at the props forum https://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?board=28.0. There are lots of mums in the same boat as you & lots of encouraging stories from those who have weaned. There will be crying but you just have to be consistent & keep shh/patting him. In time, he will find something that will calm him down (he might suck on his fingers or stroke his hair ot play with his ear, suck on a blanket or even his own lip).

Good luck!