new to group: need some guidance, please...

[Mama2boys]

Hello all,

Just got to know of the book and group today, and wish someone had told me earlier. All I had reccomended was the mean, CLB book and that was not something I wanted to follow.
So while I try and snatch a few seconds everyday to read the book, would greatly appreciate some expert advise, since we seem to be facing sleep and feeding issues.

My DS is 6 months now.

He tends to fall asleep only while being rocked, and I desperately need to stop him from that as my back is giving way, so for a week now, we are letting him CIO, has reduced from 20 to abt 10 minutes now with another 5 of in between cries. Its very hard, but if successful it will be a great boon. I am doing this only for night time sleep not for daytime naps, should I follow this for naps as well? The patting technique or shh stuff does not work on him at all.
Quite often he falls asleep while feeding, and don't know what to do with that? he used to sleep only while nursing but atleast he has grown out of that now.

He does not really have a fantastic routine (part of the problem) but I am trying. Broadly speaking his routine is as below:

6/6:30 wakeup
6:30/7 bottle feed
2 hrs nap in the middle
10:00 bottle feed
activity/massage/bath
1:00 bottle feed
1-3 approx nap
3:30/4 solids + bottle
activity
6/6:30 solids + bottle
change clothes, book reading, story telling
7:30ish sleep

all bottle feeds are about 4-6oz, its either expressed milk or formula
wakes up in middle of the night at about 4am for abt 1/1.5hrs

When DS wakes up in the night, there are a few minute of playing/grunting and then bawling, will not even pen his eyes, but keeps sucking. Doctor has asked us to feed water instead of milk, just started since Friday. Needs to be rocked back to sleep, sucks on blanket till he falls asleep. Does not want a pacifier at all.

He already has two lower teeth and I think might be starting on the next set as well, but he has never slept through the night.

SO my questions:
1.Should I persist with the night time CIO sleep routine?
2. Should I try that for his naps as well?
3. Will the water instead of milk trick work? how long should I try it?
4. How do I know if he is really in need of that extra bottle of milk?
5. How do I get him to start eating more solids?

Many many thanks to everyone who will be guiding me. I am at a big loss with absolutely no friends in the country where we live and no family around as well.

MTS

[Layla]

Hi Mutka & welcome .

If you get the chance, please get a copy of the book (from a library) as there is lots of information that will be useful to you (now & later on). Tracy didn't believe in the CIO method as it can break the trust between the parent & child & there are other, more gentle ways to teach your son how to self soothe.

At 6 months, his max A time should be around 2.5hrs, so I do think he is slightly overtired by bedtime as he is awake for 4.5hrs. Thats a fairly long stretch & you could probably fit a catnap in before bedtime. I would recommend something like this (incl milk feeds):

6/6.30am - wake up
MILK upon waking
8am - some solids
8.30ish - morning nap
10am - morning nap ends (1.5hrs)
MILK upon waking
11.30ish - some solids
12.30 - afternoon nap
2pm - afternoon nap ends (1.5hrs)
MILK upon waking
4.30ish - catnap
5:15 - catnap ends (45mins)
some solids
6pm - MILK
6.30 - bedtime routine
7ish - top up milk & bed

This is roughly what his day would look like. Milk should be after naps & not just before. At the moment he is falling asleep drinking the bottle & by changing meal times, you can help him break that association. When I mention solids, I don't mean 3 set meals. At 6 months, solids are only starting to be introduced & its not a matter of him eating more but rather just tasting things here & there. Even if that means 1 teaspoon at breakfast, luch or dinner, let it be for now. His promary source of food is still milk & so always offer milk 1st & then if you are going to try solids, it should be at least 1hr later.

The naps should also be limited to 1.5hrs - OR if you are going to have 2-2hr naps, they need to be spaced out so that again, he is not awake for such a long time in the evening before bedtime. If he's on 2 naps (which some 6mos are), his schedule would be something like this:

6.30 - wake for the day
MILK
Breakfast - solids
9am - morning nap
11am - morning nap ends
MILK
Lunch - solids
1.30 - afternoon nap
3.30 - afternoon nap ends
MILK
dinner - solids
6-6.30ish - bedtime (& top up milk)

1.Should I persist with the night time CIO sleep routine?

Absolutely NOT!!! Please stop letting him CIO. It can only lead to more problems, especially around this age, when separation anxiety kicks in. It could be harder to convince him that you are you are there for him & it will only make SA worse (he'll get really clingy, etc....)

2. Should I try that for his naps as well?

Again, no more CIO - not for naps or bedtime. I would use the pu/pd technique. If you get the chance to borrow/buy the book please do so & in the meantime have a look at the pu/pd board to get an idea of what to do tonight.
https://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?board=31.0

3. Will the water instead of milk trick work? how long should I try it?

You can water the night feeds down, so that he takes more in or you can slowly reduce the amount you are giving him at night.

4. How do I know if he is really in need of that extra bottle of milk?

Well some babies really do need a feed even at 6 months.... some need it longer & some can sleep through at 2-3 months. If he is genuinly hungry, you need to feed him but he should be able to do longer stretches now so I would pick a time for a nightfeed (say 5-6hrs after his last feed) & for all the other nightwakings, do pu/pd. You can work on eliminating that 1 feed once you are done with sleep training.

5. How do I get him to start eating more solids?

All you can do is try different foods. Have a look at the solids forum to get an idea of how much he "should" be eating. https://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?board=14.0

I hope I've covered everything. Let me knwo if you have any questions
Layla

[Mama2boys]

sorry....another question. I tried the milk frst and then solids route and he would not take any solids...so can the sleep/milk association be broken as long as he doe snot fall asleep with bottle in his hands?? Is it ok for him to play for a few minutes 5-15 after a feed, including burping etc and then fall asleep? will that still solve the sleep assocaition issue?

sorry for cross-questioning you like this, but has taken me forever to get him to eat a tad bit,doctors had aske dme to start solids at 5m since he suffered from reflux and its been hard work to get him to start drinking milk and have a bit of solid food so he gains weight correctly, and I am scared if I upset the apple cart too much he will just rebel...

Thanks a ton!
Mukta

[Layla]

He is only now starting to get the taste of solids & its not uncommon for them NOT to be eating what's served. Honestly, there is plenty of time for him to be eating MORE solids. Jasmine was an extremely fussy baby (with solids) & this is no joke... she lived on milk & milk alone for almost 8 months!!! She would have like 1 teaspoon of baby rice in the morning & would not have anything of what was served later on. Bannanas, avacado, veggies, fruit, whatever I would give her... she would have a tiny taste & then spit it out at me. I even tried to "trick" her & put something new into her hand so she would automatically open her mouth (to put the object in) & I would quickly stick food down her mouth. She was in the 25th percentile & I was worried about the whole thing but eventually with time, she got to like foods. She didn;t have reflux though so I can't really comment on that or undertand what you have been going throuhg to get him to eat/drink.

If you want to, you can leave some time before bottle & nap & that will still help break the association. Whatever works best for you & your lo. Just don't let him fall asleep at the bottle.

[Mama2boys]

oh thanks, that helps a lot, He very rarely falls asleep on the bottle, almost never, and thats thanks to the fact that he has to be burped even if he is half asleep, and burping can take pretty long at times. And i do make sure that even if its 5-7 minutes he plays with his toy or mobile or something befor ehe fallas asleep.

So atleats I dont have to be that worried about the sleep/milk association. Thank you!
Mukta