Author Topic: Please Help!!! 2.5-yo's sleep is a mess!!  (Read 1625 times)

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Offline Carys' mom

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Please Help!!! 2.5-yo's sleep is a mess!!
« on: July 25, 2007, 02:06:51 am »
My dh and I are at the end of our ropes dealing with our 2.5-year-old dd's sleep problems. Ever since we transitioned her to a twin bed from her crib about a month and a half ago, things have gone downhill. We have multiple problems:
     -She no longer goes to sleep independently - my dh has to either rock her in the rocking chair in her room or lie on her bed with her for her to go to sleep. It takes forever :(.
     -She is now waking multiple times during the night calling for dh. He goes in and it takes a lot of time to get her back to sleep.
     -She wakes super early (usually between 4am and 5:30am). This has always been a problem, but has gotten worse with her consistently waking at 4-something every day for the past several days.
     -She is refusing naps quite a bit - she refuses to even go to her room upstairs to start the wind down (reading books). And I can't carry her up the stairs at this point, being 35 weeks pregnant ::)


So...we have a very overtired dd, and we are walking zombies ourselves because of all of this. Her routine has gone to pot. She used to nap at around 1pm every day for 1.5 to 2 hrs, and went to bed by 8pm. Please help before I have a mental breakdown :'( :'( :'(.

TIA

Melanie
Mom to Carys Elizabeth (2/15/05) and Joshua August (8/16/07)




Offline Samuel's mum

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Re: Please Help!!! 2.5-yo's sleep is a mess!!
« Reply #1 on: July 25, 2007, 08:37:54 am »
It's not uncommon for a toddler's sleep patterns and routine to go a bit loopy when a new baby is on the way. She's probably needing a bit of reassurance which is why she wants the support at bedtime and the extra physical affection.

She's needing support to transition between sleep cycles it sounds like - her pre-baby version of separation anxiety.

And on-top of all that she sounds pretty overtired too as you say.

Are you familiar with BW sleep techniques? You could use a form of walk in/ walk out. Keep things very simple. Have a key phrase: "Sleep time for Carys now. See you in the morning" or whatever and say no more than the key phrase if you can help it. Don't enter into huge discussions at nighttime.

I would say that lying next to her in the bed is a better option than rocking in the rocking chair. By lying next to her - she is at least falling asleep 'by herself' to some extent and it's easier to 'wean' off that but him moving physically further and further away and leaving her when she's more and more awake (that's a gradual removal method if you want to go down that route instead of walk in/ walk out).

For the night wakings, use the key phrase and be physically in the room for a visit but try to avoid lying down again. Mentioning that daddy is tired too could also be part of the key phrase. You could also consider having a chair outside her door where daddy can sit and she can sense his presence but again weaning her off dependence on him.

I'd also change the bedtime routine for a 'fresh start'. You have her putting toys to asleep (also hopefully encouraging a lovey if she doesn't already have one) and you can use the key phrase for them too.

Depending on her understanding and communication skills, you could try a reward system. Focused on if  'she doesn't call out at night' or if she doesn't leave her room until a certain time - you could have a box of toys in there for early waking and buy something like this clock:
http://www.bunnyclock.com/
and she can't come and visit you until the bunny has woken up.

I know this sounds a bit wacky but maybe bringing the cot back is an option. I know you wanted to probably use it for the baby but perhaps it was linked to her feeling of safety and the new bed had reinforced the idea of change. I think using a cot at this age would be easier than what you are currently going through.

She may be preparing to drop the nap anyway. She's at the young end of the spectrum for dropping the nap but some do (like my ds). But I expect it's more about leaving and napping alone. Perhaps quiet time could happen downstairs - even if it's just on the sofa. Or you say, "I'm going upstairs to read now. I've got a really good new book. You can come and see if you'd like". And then go upstairs to her room and read loudly - I wouldn't be surprised if she comes up to investigate. Put toys down for the nap etc and have a nap routine too.

Anyway - there's a a few ideas. It's pretty clear you can't go on as you are. I don't think she will be consciously linking any of this with baby but I would expect it's underlying some of this. Good Luck.
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Offline Carys' mom

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Re: Please Help!!! 2.5-yo's sleep is a mess!!
« Reply #2 on: July 25, 2007, 20:54:13 pm »
Emma,

Thank you so much for your thoughtful reply and the many ideas you suggested. We are familiar with the BW sleep techniques and have used walk in/walk out in the past when she was in her crib with some success. But this time, she was getting too hysterical when my dh tried wi/wo, so my dh has been trying the gradual withdrawal method the past week or so, but no success yet.

He started by lying next to her in her bed, and she will eventually go to sleep if he does this, but it takes a long time. He has tried moving on to just sitting on the end of her bed, but she refuses to lie down - she just sits next to him on the bed even though she's falling asleep sitting up ::).  Last night, dh tried standing next to the bed, and she stood next to him on the floor for 45 minutes straight (out of the 2 hrs or so he was up there), and again she was falling asleep standing up. She is a very stubborn girl! ::) Even with my dh in the room with her, she is getting hysterical and banging on the door saying she wants to go downstairs. She does this with her early 4am-ish wakings too.

Do you think dh is moving too quickly with the gradual withdrawal? How many days should he try each step toward getting out of the room?

I think you're right about dd's sleep disruptions being partly connected to the new baby coming. Plus, she's gone through some other big changes in the past few months - she started daycare a few mornings a week around the same time she moved to her big bed. She's doing fine in daycare, but I think her anxiety is manifesting through her sleep problems and clinginess to me.

I'll talk over your suggestions with dh and see what he thinks. Thanks again!

Melanie
Mom to Carys Elizabeth (2/15/05) and Joshua August (8/16/07)




Offline Samuel's mum

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Re: Please Help!!! 2.5-yo's sleep is a mess!!
« Reply #3 on: July 25, 2007, 21:17:14 pm »
That's quite an image - her standing next to him for 45 minutes ::)

I wish I had an answer for you on the speed of the gradual withdrawal. Daddy being there for falling asleep is currently her 'routine' for getting to sleep and now you need to try and work on a new routine. Every child is going to go through the process at a different speed. Sounds like she's a pretty determined lady!

For a gradual withdrawal the order is basically:
phase one - move an arm's length away on the bed. This is a good time to introduce a lovey or even an audio lovey (soft music CD, audio book, white noise). I do think the lovey could be your key here.
phase two - chair in the room. Close to the bed. Hand on child, feet on bed. Same lovey. If she resists say," I'm just going to sit here for a minute, then I'll lie with you again."
phase three - chair a little further away
phase four - chair across the room . With an excuse if needed - "I need to use the light from the hall because I'm reading an important book."
phase five - chair outside the door but can still be seen.
Phase six - chair outside the door, out of sight.
Throughout all of this same lovey - soft toy or audio 'lovey'.

(BTW I didn't make this up. I read it in a non-BW book).
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Offline Katet

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Re: Please Help!!! 2.5-yo's sleep is a mess!!
« Reply #4 on: July 26, 2007, 04:38:49 am »
We had a fair few sleep issues with my ds#2 moving to a bed & he got really overtired.
what I did was pretty much go back to basics of how to relax him.
First 2 nights I sat & read with him on my lap until he almost fell asleep, moved him to his bed & kept reading until he did fall asleep... first night I think we went back & forth from the chair 3 or 4 times. NW I just cuddled him until he went to sleep, then gradually I read more & more stories while he was in bed, but stopped when he got really drowsy & then started sitting in his room in a chair, then after maybe 2 weeks of him being awake & me sitting in the chair (until after he fell asleep) I started telling him "just leaving to go to the toilet" & went & came back & then worked on that until it became, "I'm going out now, have a goodnight, I will be back to check on you in a minute" & would leave for a few mintues go back give a cuddle, leave, go back etc until the time I went back & he would be asleep... now I can leave him for 5mins & check & about 50% of the time he is asleep when I check... NW have got better too apart from teething issues... we also had heaps of early wakings, which I now realise were from him being chronically overtired.
With the naps, will she sit still for stories, could she nap on your lap downstairs? ie read her stories until she falls asleep?
dc1 July 03, dc2 May 05

Offline Carys' mom

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Re: Please Help!!! 2.5-yo's sleep is a mess!!
« Reply #5 on: July 26, 2007, 16:53:47 pm »
Sounds like she's a pretty determined lady!

Yes, that's one way to put it ;)!

Thanks Emma for the gradual withdrawal steps - that will be helpful. She does have 2 loveys that she sleeps with and is very attached to - both stuffed animals. We do have an air cleaner in her room for white noise, but it may not be loud enough. And maybe we can try a music CD or something.

Last night she had one night waking, and she woke at 5:30am instead of 4-something - so I guess that's progress. Although she is very unpredictable, so tomorrow could be completely different.

Katet -

Thanks for sharing your experience. My dd does like books, but tends to want to turn the pages herself and has never fallen asleep to reading books. However, lately for naps I've been resorting to sitting with her on the couch downstairs watching a video, and a majority of the time she'll fall asleep for 2 hours or more if I let her.

 
Melanie
Mom to Carys Elizabeth (2/15/05) and Joshua August (8/16/07)




Offline headinoz

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Re: Please Help!!! 2.5-yo's sleep is a mess!!
« Reply #6 on: July 27, 2007, 00:30:00 am »
Hi there:

Our DD is a bit younger (18 months) but I thought I'd share the short version of our transition to the big girl bed, since we had some big challenges with bedtime and similar issues with NW too. 

It took us about a month to get through the GW process and get her to fall asleep entirely on her own and sleep through the night in her big girl bed. Our DD has a toddler bed so we could never lie IN the bed with her - but I slept on her floor with her all night for four nights, then stayed in the room but farther away until she fell asleep for about a week, then about a week standing outside her door, each night spending less and less time at the door.  By the fourth week, I could tuck her into bed, say our sleep words, go to the door, close it, stand there for the count of 10, and leave.  Now we are back to where we were when she slept in her cot - story, cuddle, night kiss, and FREEDOM for Mummy.  LOL

I hope that helps a little... I can only imagine how tired you must be so late in your pregnancy with a wakeful toddler on your hands!  Good luck to you and your DH.

Offline Katet

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Re: Please Help!!! 2.5-yo's sleep is a mess!!
« Reply #7 on: July 27, 2007, 02:14:52 am »
Headinoz, I don't want to give you a negative spin, BUT we did much the same with ds#2 at 19mo & by 21 months he no longer stayed in bed, total regression... so just be warned as they get more "knowledgable" things can change.

Melanie, when ds#2 was wanting to turn pages rather than read, I used to either tell the story from memory or I'd make up one along the lines of "there once was a boy called L who loved trains & one day he went on a train ride.... & then at bed time he did X, Y Z) So I used story time to talk about what he could/would do that night & it really did help... gosh forgotten about those days

dc1 July 03, dc2 May 05

Offline headinoz

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Re: Please Help!!! 2.5-yo's sleep is a mess!!
« Reply #8 on: July 27, 2007, 15:18:15 pm »
Headinoz, I don't want to give you a negative spin, BUT we did much the same with ds#2 at 19mo & by 21 months he no longer stayed in bed, total regression... so just be warned as they get more "knowledgable" things can change.

Thanks Kate!  We don't take much for granted with DD...  ;D I'm keeping my fingers crossed that she continues to sleep in her bed, but have the baby gate ready just in case we need to "help her" to stay in her room at bedtime.   :P

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Re: Please Help!!! 2.5-yo's sleep is a mess!!
« Reply #9 on: July 28, 2007, 14:01:17 pm »
Thanks headinoz for sharing your transition story. Maybe we can adopt some of what you did.

Well, I was right about my dd being unpredictable. The last couple nights, she's back to several night wakings, and waking for the day at 5am. And no nap yesterday :(. I think she may be teething though because she's had a runny nose since yesterday, and hasn't been eating as well. So we gave her ibuprofen last night.

I think putting her to bed has become a little bit less of a struggle because dh has gone back to sitting on her bed and is going to take it slower moving to the next step.

Thanks again everyone!

Melanie
Mom to Carys Elizabeth (2/15/05) and Joshua August (8/16/07)