talks/plays in crib for an hour b.f sleep (more)

[PeepersMom]

I have read a million posts this morning and I see there are a very few of us that have this problem - or not a problem.  Which is what i am trying to find out.

PJ will take anywhere from 30-75 min to fall asleep (usually around 45-55min) after I put him down for the night.  this is only at bedtime.  I do a very nice bedtime routine, he is happy about it, but still I put him down and it takes that long till he falls asleep.  He sleeps ok most of the night.  He usually has one briefwake up of a yell out for 5 seconds or so and then sleeps the rest of the night.  He has done this since he started 'sleeping through'  so that is nothing new.  He usually sleeps just 10.5 hours give or take 15 min.  His naps have also shortened significantly during this change to about 45min-1h15min.

TO ME he looks tired.  He has bags under his eyes and will be hyper by the end of the day.  I personally think he needs more sleep during the day.  On the rare occasion he does a good 1.5 hour nap he still falls asleep the same time at night and is such a happy boy.

I have a couple issues here, I guess.  First off how do you best extend a toddlers nap?  I have tried going down earlier - as this has helped on and off in the past but he still won't fall asleep before 6 h A time so that isnt' working.  But much later than 6 I am afraid will push bedtime back even later.  Right now he tends to fall asleep for nap after 6h15 min or 6h30 min and still the naps are about 1 hour.  Actually we haven't had one over an hour in 2 weeks unless I sleep with him and I did that twice. 

then after a long bedtime routine that takes total of about an hour he will still take up a significant amount of time to fall asleep at night. 

So what do I work on, lengthening the nap or the night?   and how do I get him to fall asleep earlier at bedtime?  I don't know that I can, really, can I?

Current routine

630-7 am awake (on his own)
nap between 1-130 for approx 1 hours (wakes screaming and tired)
615-630 pm start bedtime routine
730 in crib
falls asleep 815-830

I think he might just be a kid that needs his own wind down at the end of the day - i hear him couting, talking about trucks, planes, bridges... he doesn't do that at nap time. 

also this drop in sleep happened so abruptly and i dont know what caused it.  He went from sleeping 10.5-11h nights and 2+ hour naps to 10.5h nights and 45-1hour naps.  and again, he does look tired to me.  He just needs 30 min more somewhere.

thanks

Meg

[Fiona (Leah & Kians Mom)]

DD did this right before her second birthday and is still doing it, she does it at nap time as well, half an hour usually for nap time and between 40 and 60 mins at night. She goes through her whole day and all the rest. And there is nothing I can do about it, if I went in to ask her to quieten down a bit it just confused her and made her cry. Maybe you could put him down 15 mins earlier at night so he will sleep 15 mins earlier, or even try for half an hour?

[PeepersMom]

thanks Fiona, actually the reason why I put him down at 730 now is to ensure an 8-830 bedtime.  I already feel like we are starting so early - 630pm just to get him to sleep by 830!  seems like a long time to me, but maybe not?

thanks for sharing your experience with me.  Sometimes it just amazes me that people will put their LO's down and they just drift off to sleep.  How does that happen???

meg

[*Natasha*]

I would try a slightly earlier nap perhaps 12.30pm he could only be sleeping for a short time due to OT.

[Layla]

Meg, I agree about the slightly earlier nap. I think the A time in the morning is fairly long. I was able to push Isabella to 6 hrs at 2 & then 6.5hrs soon after that but he might not be able to handle 6.5hrs yet so try 5.5hrs so that he falls asleep by the 6hr mark. I might be reading it wrong but wake up time is 6.30-7am & nap is 1-1.30pm... so from wake up (6.30-1pm) thats 6.5hrs. Also are you sure he wakes at 6.30-7am (stupid question really but unless I check the video camera I am never sure what time my girls wake or go to sleep. Isabella started calling out of me a while ago but at 2 I am pretty sure she used to just roll around quietly until I come & get her)

also this drop in sleep happened so abruptly and i dont know what caused it.  He went from sleeping 10.5-11h nights and 2+ hour naps to 10.5h nights and 45-1hour naps.

Funny you made this comment... I was just posting very same thing in Kelly's post (about Zander). Isabella's sleep changed dramatically at around age 2. She went from 11.5/11hrs at night down to 10.5 & her nap reduced to 1.5hrs. It was so sudden...

Do you think he could be teething at all? Have you tried to leave him in the room if he wakes before 1hr to allow him to fall asleep again? I used to go in & tell her nap time is not over & to go back to sleep. This worked 99% of the time (sort of wi/wo). I never took her out of the cot at 45mins mins at that age. So you might want to give that a go

Also the amount it takes to windown can be as long as 30-40 (well always been the case here) but 1hr is either too stimulated/overtired or  not tired enough. Considering he looks & acts tired during the day & wakes up screaming from nap, I would say its overtired. What activities do you do before nap time & bedtime? Does he watch tv at all in the evening? How long is your wind down - if its longer than 40mins thats more like an activity than a wind down so might not be helping him relax...

At that age, Isabella's day was something like this:

6ish - wake
12.30 - 2 nap (again she needed a longer A time or she would wake at 5.30am)
7pm - bed (asleep by 7.30pm)

[PeepersMom]

I just saw this and thank you soooo very much for your thoughtful reply!

yes I am very sure at this point he was overtired.  And now he is teething - I know because on his own, despite my best efforts, he lengthened his naps back to 1h20-1.30min.  Also all the other signs.  He usually sleeps more when he is teething.  So that might have fixed itself although -but prior to this i had been really trying to go to a shorter A time for a while then gave up and started to extend. Also I do leave him in the crib for as long as he can stand it - I have never tried to go in and tell him to go back to sleep, though.  good idea!  In the way past I used to pick him up and rock him back to sleep. Sadly, this is really not a new problem for us - the short naps.  I think if it happens again I will go with the shorter A time. Interesting b/c this A time just abruptly lengthened also.  I will get him ready at the 5.5h mark and he used to fall asleep within 5 min for his nap but now he just won't fall asleep before 6 h and it is closer to 6h15min. So I started just working on the 6 hour mark. Seems really long for my little guy especially since he always had such a short morning and a longer afternoon.

The most questionable thing is as we are driving home from his morning nursery school (M-W-F) he looks like he could fall over asleep in the car = good thing it is only a short drive.  that is usually about 5 h after A time. Then we get home have lunch and try to get him down but I have gone and overstimmed him just by getting him out of the car.  I might try to throw him a sandwich in the back seat for the ride home and straight to naptime routine as soon as we hit the house but I don't know how he would do with that.  We can try. I do stories and then a short rock b/f naps.  He usually isn't nearly as much trouble at nap.. the longest it usually takes is 20 min and that is rare.

WOW very interesting point about the long winddown.  I would say it is about 1 hour long.  I know it is about 1 hour.  We do about 20 min in the tub, 20 of books (this is the most relaxing part to him) the 20 min of rocking = during which he starts to get all wound up again and then into the crib for the whole crib play thing I described above.   What you said is very poignant. I have lengthened the winddown because I noticed how much he liked the books and then I lengthened the rocking because he started getting hyped up and I was hoping to get him over the hump back to relaxed... makes sense why it backfired on me now.  So I think I will probably shorten the tub time and the rocking time but keep the books because he really relaxes with the books. 

If you ask me - frankly - I think he is a sleepy kid most of the time b/c he is just a fitful sleeper.  He wakes frequently through the night with callouts lasting anywhere from 5 seconds to 5 minutes.  Usually only 1x/noc, but occaisionally several times/night.  I do know when he wakes up b/c I am a light sleeper and he is a very loud sleeper.  It kills me!  I know last night he was up at 3:03 for a short call out then at 5:55 for 2 min and asleep again until 7:08.  I heard him roll over in his crib just before he started to talk.      I was holding my breath at the 5:55 wake up. 

thanks again

meg

[Layla]

Also I do leave him in the crib for as long as he can stand it - I have never tried to go in and tell him to go back to sleep, though.  good idea!

I used to leave Isabella in the cot for the duration of the nap. So if she woke at 45mins... she would spend another 45. When she stood up & cried out, I'd go in & tell her nap time is not over. If I had to I would do some wi/wo although I understand this can frustrate toddlers more than anything .

I think thats a really good idea to try lunch in the car (although not ideal) to give him the chance to fall asleep slightly sooner....

So I think I will probably shorten the tub time and the rocking time but keep the books because he really relaxes with the books. 

Stick to what relaxes him. The rocking might have worked in the past but maybe now he would do better to reduce the amount of rocking or you could replace the rocking with him sitting on your lap while reading the last book & you could rub his back or play with his hair instead (rubbing hair/massaging is VERY relaxing, lol). Its not so much that you need to reduce the windonw routine but do what helps... & if rocking is doing the opposite & hyping him up then I would either stop it or reduce it.

I was holding my breath at the 5:55 wake up.

Ooooh I hate those calls... when its THAT close to the wake up time, I am awake & very still in my bed, too scared to move incase she hears me & wakes right up!

Good luck & keep me posted

[PeepersMom]

well the little stinker got me today - up at 539!  and just "aaahhhhed" off and on until 7 happy as a clam in his crib.  So all bets are off today and then we leave for a short 2 night trip.  No fixing things until Monday I guess.  UGH

We'll have to leave nursery school early today to get that nap in early - with a short night he will be cranky so this won't e easy!  I have to go today because it is our turn to bring snacks.  OF COURSE the perfect storm. HA!