Need to make a decision (sorry long)

[Erin (redstarfalling)]

Well, I know with Samantha, her mantra can go up and down in volume, but it's how long it stays really really loud that I go by....  If I'm in my bedroom and she starts, I listen for a sec to see what's doing.  Then if she goes up in volume, I get up and slowly walk towards her room.  If it goes down again by the time I get there, I don't go in.  Probably takes me maybe 30-45 seconds total?  Her I need you cry tends to be more screechy too, and if I go in to see her - with the mantra, she's usually burrowing her face in the mattress or her lovey, but if she needs me, she's standing up as close to the door as she can get.

[bethanys mummy]

Hmm thanks. It does go up and down in volume, sometimes breaks down into full crying - as you say more screechy  and looking for me - (then I PUPD), sometimes gradually gets quieter into moaning and finally settling.

Its just it can seem so intense to ignore it feels like CIO.... and its def not the "odd burst of a cry" that Tracy mentions in her BWSAYP book!

On the other hand shes burying her head, rocking etc allot of the time so then it seems like self soothing. so I stand there like a dithering idiot wondering what to do!!! Trying to just use my voice at this stage and no touching unless escalates, wereas previously did PUPD at that stage so maybe too much intervention.......

Final Q (and these are before we even start...) should we use a blow up bed in her room. Rereading it all again in the book Tracy suggests it if the baby has never slept alone before and / or is used to Mum's breast when waking....

[bethanys mummy]

Sorry forgot to say thanks so much again

[Peek-a-boo]

No, I definitely wouldn't sleep in her room.  Because her sleep is on the independent side of things already and your presence is potentially a prop I think you need to push to be out of the room before she's asleep--with her aware that you've left.   

[bethanys mummy]

Cheers

Guess what - ratty baby yesterday and the same today - it may be teeth time again.....

will keep an eye but presume you dont recommend starting if teething so should we just get some calpol in there and go for it (we have rearranged DH's work and all sorts for this!!)

Thanks

[Erin (redstarfalling)]

I use my voice A LOT when I'm doing PD - I say "lie down, go to sleep" each time, so that after a while, all i have to do is go in and say that and she'll lie back down herself.

[Peek-a-boo]

Whether or not to start while she's teething is up to you.  If she responds well to meds, you could medicate and go for it.  If teething is really hard on her, it may be better to wait.

At this age DS teethed non-stop, so we chose to persist through it.  Teething wasn't terrible for him as it is for some LOs I know. 

[bethanys mummy]

Hi all

well we decided to go ahead so wanted to update you

Think it went well???

She took a while to settle, new surroundings perhaps? Then nothing before I went to bed and df her, although she had had meds for the teeth so this may have helped

Woke about 1.30 - took a good while to settle (half an hour), only went in when crying escalated so she was quite awake as played a while, then was up again for a breif while about 20 mins later but not as long

Woke at about 4.30 and resettled herself 

Woke about 6 am and was very difficult to settle, on and off for a while. Worried about wind so waited until she was asleep(but restless) and fed her about 6.45. She then slept for another 1.5 hours so obviously still tired

Not a bad start, even if DH is a bit knackered!!!

Do need to push him to get out of the room though. Think he is PUPD alright, using his voice, avoiding prolonged use of hand, but does need to get out of room before she settles (although she is hardly aware as facing other way, burying head etc)

What do you think??

Would appreciate if you could let me know if lots of people struggle with the dawn PUPD - perhaps as the lo's think they have had enough sleep so are more likely to resist going back down? (even though she was still tired as she then slept for 1.5 hours more and even had a big nap today) - might help me decide if its wind / teeth or "normal"

Thanks

[Peek-a-boo]

Sounds like a good start.  In your situation espsecially, I really think that you want DH out of the room while she's still awake enough to know that he's left.  Not that he needs to make noise as he's leaving or anything, but you really want him to be removed from the falling asleep process as much as possible in order to solve the night wakings.

It is very, very common to have troubles in the wee hours of the morning.  I think because LO has slept a good chunk already her sleep drive is less and she has more energy to fight off falling asleep independently.  Try to be as consistent as possible, but really focus on getting it just right--DH out of the room and her knowing he's out--when she first falls asleep at the beginning of the night.  That's when her sleep drive is greatest so she's most likely to fall asleep in a new way.  Once she gets the hang of it in that setting when she's super tired, she'll realize she can do it and will fight it less at other wakings too. 

Give DH a big hug from us.   

[bethanys mummy]

cant hug him he's having an early night

Have told DH that staying in room will add an extra step to the process so he knows its the key step now - we are usually out of the room at nap time and bed time so its the night time ones we need to sort (get trapped in corner occasionally)

Thanks for info re dawn wakings. I will really try to feed when she is asleep so I know I can feel I have tacked the wind issue but without carrying on with the prop side

Must go, df to do....

Thanks again for support

[Erin (redstarfalling)]

Sounds really really good to me Emma!  I hope it keeps getting better and better.  Definitely get him out of the room earlier, if possible - that's our hard part too (although DH is better than me at that!).  I hear you with the early morning stuff too!  We've been doing PD for over an hour off and on for the past few days....it's so tempting to give into to AP, but it DOES get better.  Great going to both of you!!

[bethanys mummy]

Thanks for your support

Last night sadly worse - breif waking and quick PUPD at 1 am, up for an hour 2-3 ish then another hour 6-7 ish- the last one was very tough, wasn't entirely clear if she had pain, she was quite upset but could have been frustration-  DH stopped to give her meds (not ideal but what can you do?).

DH did well at getting out of the room last night and is also trying not to use his hand at all, but that dawn wake up is a killer so I thought some use of the hand (but withdrawing it as soon as she shows any sign of settling) might be alright here - what do you think? or am I heading down AP alley!!!

Held out to feed her after settling -  and again she slept for another 1.5 hours, in fact I had to wake her up....

Todays naps a big wonky as she just fell asleep in the car on the way back from a friends so will have to go to bed a bit later, its such a balancing act isn't it!!!

But it will get better... won't it!! ?

E x

[Peek-a-boo]

Yes, it will get better.   

[bethanys mummy]

OK - update time

Friday night - not bad -brief PU PD at 1 am then awake and very restless 5-6 am (lots of PUPD, settled then awake again) but otherwise little movement

Sat night - pretty similar

Seems good but as usual a few Q's....

- is this the way it usually goes - ie still some tough patches but hopefully fewer and fewer and shorter....

- we are having a few times when she is waking and crying with eyes shut - as another post mentions it seems as though she wants to be asleep but cant due to OT or discomfort (those teeth!) - go to PUPD as she is crying and find eyes shut - should you carry on PUPD then or leave to settle - dont want to disturb sleep / her attempts to sleep but the cry is enough to make us go in??

- I am managing to feed her (df and am feed) when asleep, but it does seem to a be a light sleep, she often wakes as I enter the room or very easily. Is this normal? I am thinking it is as DD1 has just become a deeper and deeper sleeper with age, but wanted to check. Otherwise I guess I am wrong and I am feeding her when awake!

E x

[Peek-a-boo]

is this the way it usually goes - ie still some tough patches but hopefully fewer and fewer and shorter....

Yes, it seems to be how it goes.  Sometimes there will even be a huge regression, but keep being consistent and things come out better in the end.   

- we are having a few times when she is waking and crying with eyes shut - as another post mentions it seems as though she wants to be asleep but cant due to OT or discomfort (those teeth!) - go to PUPD as she is crying and find eyes shut - should you carry on PUPD then or leave to settle - dont want to disturb sleep / her attempts to sleep but the cry is enough to make us go in??

If it's a genuine cry, I'd go in and check on her.  If her eyes are closed and she's not even aware that you are there.  I guess I'd tend to not intervene, but just stay there (she doesn't realize your there so it won't do any harm) until the cry settles to a mantra or fuss or she's back to sleep.  I'd only intervene and do pu/pd if she actually seems to have woken up and her eyes are open.


About the feeding . . . I honestly don't know.  I started BW too late to ever use a dream feed and once DS is asleep I never ever go in his room because I'm chicken and don't want to wake him, LOL, so I've no idea what's normal.