Support for Raising Spirited Babies

[pbmom]

Completely agree with Janet.  We also "WD before the WD"...by carrying Brooke around and singing her fave song.  It really helps.  When she was smaller I would do a longer time in the bjorn so she would chill out.  Now it's only 5-10min.  It's exhausting isn't it?  But I also agree with J in that a spirited toddler is a true joy!  Mine is now 27mos and wow to see how happy and full of life she is.  And she was angel/spirited.  This new one's spirited/angel, so we'll see!  Crazy times!!  With the spirited ones you sometimes have to go with the flow as they will wake and not go back down, etc., but BW big time pays off in the end! 

Stay well ladies and spirited babes

[Tinynic]

Hi everyone, how relieved am i to find this thread and realise that my baby is not one of a kind!!!!  My son is 9 weeks old and we have done easy since day 1.  Feeding has never been an issue but as i am sure you have guessed, going to sleep is the issue !! He fights like crazy.  For a few weeks in a row i barely left the house so i could get a 'wind down' routine established along with SSH/PAT but this week i have given up.  i dont feel my attempts achieved much except i have nearly gone insane not going out and just stressing about it.  He will not put himself to sleep so i need to hold him in my arms while he fights me, crying until he drifts off.  This week i have decided to go about my business as usual and have gone out the house every day.  He doesnt like the car seat and usually cries and sometimes even falls asleep.  i think this is the only time he falls asleep himself but i do feel guilty cos he cries without me being able to comfort him cos i am driving !!!
anyway, he has been a bit grumpy at bathtimes the last couple of days which is unusual but i think its cos he is just tired (from our outings) and wants to go to bed as he has gone down first time the last two nights.  previously he was waking after 30 mins and needed to be resettled.
nap times are very brief and always takes at least a 10 minute fight beforehand.

it is very disheartening but understanding that it is just his personanlity and that he doesnt hate me, really helps 

does anyone have any advice on how i can wind down better as to try and avoid the crying matches?  i mean tonight for example, he fell asleep in my arms so i put him in his chair to sleep, he woke after 5 mins but never cried so i just left him and never let him see me.  after about 10 mins i let him see me and spoke to him and he started crying !!! so i picked him up, he fought, i SSH/PT and then he fell asleep after 5-10mins.  Do you think he wanted to go to sleep and that is why he cried when he saw me as if to ask for my help?

also, how come spirited babies can look so happy and awake but are actually very tired ARGH
at least it can only get better 

[Sharondp]

Hi all - can I join in?
I think we qualify - we did the 'test' in the BW for Toddlers book last night and Leo (16 months) had the following scores:
Angel - 5
Textbook - 6
Spirited - 9

The Angel / textbook scores were all around E & S. The spirited side of him comes out in A time 
His older brother Toby was all angel / textbook, so I'm wondering if this is beacuse he's a second child, he has to fight for toys in the playroom, and gets very frustrated if Toby has things he wants If he doesn't get what he wants, it seems as though his whole world has come crashing down and he'll sob bitterly!

So far I don't have any advice for other posters - I need to read through this thread properly myself! Just wanted to mark my spot!

[sherry lynn]

JKHH,
Thanks for the info on the wind down. I still struggle with that. I try to add things and it just overstimulates him, and as you guys all know holding them before hand does not work, he just wants to play and/or arch his back. He's been doing that as long as I can remember. As he is getting older, reading the cues is getting harder and harder. He is almost 4 months, wow. Any hints on trying to read a spirited guys sleepy cues at this age?

What is a Grobag?

[sherry lynn]

Tinynic,
I started BW at around 9/10 weeks. This is a really really tough time for the little guys.  I have found with my little guy that he does not do well with a change in the routine. I'm assuming it is a spirited thing. That they need structure and to know what is coming next. I wanted to tell you that it does get much better. Also with spirited babies they get tired so fast, and we really don't do anything that is even a little stimulating because he gets so over stimulated. He is just so happy to be talked to and have attention paid to him that I don't feel he is missing out by not running the mobile, etc. Something that really helped me at that age is somebody on here told me to really watch his awake time. He really could only handle and hour of awake time. Which broke my heart because he took 40+ to eat, so by the time I changed his diaper etc. However, once I cut out the stimulating stuff, not even using the rocking chair, and made sure to put him down on time it got much better. Things really started to look up for me at 12 weeks. So even though staying home is maddening, I want to give you encouragement to stick with it. HTH.

[Tinynic]

thanks sherrylnn for the encouragement. 
i also dont use mobiles or toys, mainly because he really isnt interested.  he is happy to sit in his chair with me talking to him.  the main problem is that i know he is tired but when i pick him up to try and start his wind down, he just cries.  its like he knows its coming and wants to fight it.  or maybe he isnt ready to go down.  it does really make you doubt if he is actually tired, or if hes hungry ARGH

anyway i am just going with the flow just now and keeping any outings to the morning.  at this moment he is sat in his chair, kicking his arms and legs and cooing, staring at me, and i know he is sleepy cos hes been awake for almost 90 mins !!!!!! but i just have to wait for a cry and then push through the fight.

[pbmom]

Sherrylynn - glad that things are better for you.  I haven't been on in a while and B is now 7mos!  Wow, time flies...even with all the spirited crazines

Tinynic - welcome.  Hugs to you!  you sound exactly like me with Brooke at that age.  I had an angel/spirited as my first child (now 2) so I was like, what the....I had no clue a baby could act so awake and be happily drowsy and show no sleep signs!  But then I really paid attention to every little movement and her mannerisms (in between the screaming of course) and figured it out.  It took a while but it worked.  I started BW from the beginning as well and hoped it would work wonders.  Well, it has.  I second the pp that a routine with structure is a must as spirited types do like to know what's coming next.  They really do thrive on routine early on, so kudos to you that you are a BW.  I did find that with winddown it was particularly helpful to start the winddown downstairs...like a WD before the WD, iykwim?  I would walk around with Brooke for 10 or so minutes and sing in a whisper or talk quietly about taking a nap.  Then I would take her to her room (which is already darkened so she's not too stimulated by bright light walking in) and change her diaper and put her in the grobag.  I turn on her music and her fan and then hold her for a minute and in she goes.  Now, when she was your lo's age, I thought I had to walk her around with her and jiggle a bit to settle her.  But I soon realized that all that was doing was OS her so that I got a short nap.  I did swaddle then and use a sleep positioner and paci.  I did try to sit with her, but all she'd do is stand on my legs and arch or grab at my face...still doesn't like it so we don't do it.  Reading books or anything else during WD was too stimulating...she would kick her legs and go nuts, so I cut it all out.  Our WD now is like 5 min or less once upstairs (of course there's 5-10 minutes of holding her dowstairs before that).  I would say to really pay attention to A time and note any changes in her behavior that don't seem to matter, but would indicate she's tire...turning her head away from your face or scratching at her face/head/ears or generaly fussing.  Mine never seemed to have tired signs and if I waited for the big yawn she was already OT and I was too late.  So, I started to play with A time by 10 min increments and found what seemed to work and then started winddown 15 min before that with the walking, then upstairs to bed.  HTH - pm me if you want to chat or have questions.  Your situation sounds so similar to mine - it does get better, I promise  

ps - Brooke often fought me going down when she was undertired at that age.  Some fight if OT though, so maybe a look at your routine will help us

[sineadw]

Hi guys I am new to the site so to introduce myself I have 2 fabulous children my dd aged 3 years is a textbook/angel girl and has been a joy in every way possible and took to EASY and thrived on it within days of my starting to follow it.  My ds however is 9 months old and a spirited/grumpy baby he was spirited/textbook for a while but the grumpy side has increased with age and it has been a challenging 9 months---!! I am so happy to find a support board for spirited babies because only parents of spirited babies can understand them! My ds is a great sleeper at night (but only since 7 months before that it was a total nightmare!!) he now sleeps 7pm to 7am most nights and will have at least one one hour nap and one 45 minute nap in the day.  He also is a great eater loves his food and is very independent and I have had to allow him to have finger foods since he was 7 months old. He has been crawling since he was 7 months old and is now on the verge of walking and he is very impatient to get going.  He falls all the time bangs his head and then screams not out of pain but out of sheer anger that he has been interupted in his task.  If you tell him he cant do anything like eat an electric cable or climb behind the tv  he just screams and gets really mad. He refuses to go to anyone other than me or my dd he will sometimes go to my mum but depends on his mood! When someone other than me or dh is holding him he screams and struggles to get away.  I am sick of people saying to me "why does he cry so much" or "what is wrong with him".  He is a challenging personality and at home with me he is funny, very clever with remarkable problem solving skills ( in my own unbiased opinion!!!) However, i now have to return to work in a month I have started him with our childminder who he knows well. He is fine for the first few minutes but then he will fall over or do something he shouldn't and then he realises I am not there and  he just cries and cries and is inconsolable.I am terrified that because of his challenging personality she will not take to him and not learn to love him as much as she loves out dd!! Any tips for dealing with separation anxiety in a spirited baby?? I know that his separation anxiety is normal but the spirited side of him just seems to be making it more complicated!!! Sorry for ranting on so much to say and it is such a relief to find people who will understand!!

[sherry lynn]

Things are better, but the still aren't easy. I still spend most of his nap time in his room. But at least I can get him down for just about every nap. It takes about 20 minutes of fighting before he goes to sleep, but at least he does go to sleep now. I'm going to try to go to the 4 hour easy now that he's 16 weeks to see if that helps. Any suggestions?

[sherry lynn]

HI guys,
I posted this in the naps section and was wondering if you guys could help me out, since you have spirited babies too?
I am struggling with the 45 min naps, and have been the entire time I've been on EASY. I've been doing this for about 2 months now. I know wind downs should take about 15 minutes. Do you guys start the wind down after you see the first tired signs, or around the time you know you should be seeing the tired signs? I think I am putting him in his crib too early. He often yawns right when I put him in the crib. We use to fight OT all the time, so I made sure he was ready for bed at the first yawn. Maybe I should wait a little longer now? Maybe these 10-15 minutes after the first tired sign would be enough to break the 45 min monster?
When do you guys start walking around the house and quietly chatting and such?

[julesd]

All my friends have angel or textbook babies, but I have a fiesty little go-getter.  From the moment he popped out he was bright eyed, could hold his head up, and insisted on controlling the show from his bouncy chair.  So you can imagine us at playgroup:  all the other moms are smiling serenely as their docile little angel/textbook kid sits happily in their lap and looks at the wall, while my little guy screams his head off because I'm not bouncing him on my knee at the precise angle he likes. 

He's five months old now and for the last month I've really started to appreciate his particular strengths and gifts.  He's got personality plus and just loves to get in on a good joke.  He'll laugh his head off if anyone else in the room is laughing about anything at all!  He's curious and smart and has an incredible attention span if he's interested in something.  And while he sometime tries to boss mommy around, at least I never have to guess what he wants

And this post is done... after half an hour of trying to get him down for a nap, he has slept all of 20 minutes.  Sigh!

[dredhead]

hey julesd!
welcome - we sound like we're in the same boat! my dd was just the same - from birth, could pop her had around and always wide eyed, not missing a trick!fabulous but exausting no?!

mum groups are so funny, other babies just cooing gently while mine tries to climb up and scale me, roll across the room or shout and scream just cos shes found her voice!
sighxxxoff  again, the madam is calling...

[julesd]

hey dredhead

That sums it up:  "fabulous but exhausting!"  How old is your DD?  Did you struggle to get her to nap/go to bed at night?  Did you find anything that worked?

[pbmom]

FWIW - A lot of spirited babes need complete darkness to sleep.  I mean like even put electrical tape over the little green light on your monitor.  I used to say that Brooke knew where the camera was and wanted to be famous 'cause she would always stare right into it.  Turns out the little green light distracted her...nosy little thing!

For those who are new, Brooke is almost 7.5mos.  I have an angel/spirited toddler (2yrs) as well.  Feel free to pm me anytime with specific questions and I'll try to help.  I did write earlier (top of this page I think) about winding down...seemed to help me and another mom of a spirited babe here. 

Good sleep vibes!

[dredhead]

oh yesss! have posted many times now on both napping AND sleep times!
currently tearing my hair out over both!!!!and have been since day1!
sometimes i get really stressed by the whole thing and other times i just laugh it off!
today after a(nother) night of broken 1 or 2 hours sleep for a total of 5 hours overnight im not particularly in the laughing mood! and knowing she wont nap more than 45 mins (and that after a fight) isnt making things funnier this morning!

have left dh upstairs to get a few more hours without the wriggle monkey wrestling twins.
The only thing left to try for naps is a blackout blind but im having to wait till dh payday first.a tight month this one as im on last remnents of maternity leave now ( ouch!)
good luck , love to hear your progress!!xxx