Support for Raising Spirited Babies

[MLC]

Hello all, I have a spirited (+reflux) little girl - she will be 4 month old in a week's time. Still trying to go through all the posts in this thread but I'm so glad there is this thread! Pls forgive me if I ask some really fundamental questions..

1. For the past 2 nights, she has been major clawing and kicking at me when I rock her to sleep before bedtime. I gave up and put her in her bed and to my surprise she babbled and yelled for 30min and then fell asleep! Tonight however, she's having a harder time and is mantra crying. Question - when she babbles/yells/mantra cry - do i make my presence known? or do i just stay low and leave her alone? If I show my face, soemtimes she starts to smile and play..

2. When she mantra cries - do I still shh/pat? Or shd i leave her be?

3. She started crying a little more hysterically tonight (think her reflux was paining her) so I picked her up and rocked her till very nearly asleep.  Should I have done the shh/pat instead - tho from past experience doesnt really work unless she's ALMOST asleep..

4. She only ever sleeps/naps in her room and her cot (dark, cool etc). How will I ever cope when bringing her out? She has never fallen asleep outside.. just keeps crying more and more no matter how much I rock.  Pls help..

[BensMamma]

Hi Ashley,
Do you think she might have silent reflux?  My LO has it, and it became really noticable around 2-3 months.  Same symptoms as you are describing.  He still gained weight, but it was always a struggle for him to eat and his naps were awful.  After we convinced the doctor that something was wrong, he prescribed an acid reducing medicine, had us elevate the head of the crib 30-45 degrees, and keep DS inclined for 30 minutes after eating.  Things got much better after that.

[sherry lynn]

Ashley,
I forgot how old your LO is?
30 minutes counting feeding time?

[Kriegs mom]

Here's my latest sleep issue with my 9 week old, Krieg.  I'd love some feedback if anyone has ideas. I have been doing the sh/pat for a few weeks, and he finally got the hang of it for 3 straight days, then we had a bad day and he lost it all. I've started over and it's been about 10 days of trying to reteach him to put himself to sleep. He now will contentedly go into his crib without crying, but will not fall asleep. He'll just lay there wrestling around, making noises, not crying though, for as long as I'll let him stay in there. I know he's not overtired when I put him down, but I'm afraid to let him just play in there too long, as he'll get overtired after a while. So when I finally decide it's been long enough, I pick him up and rock for a minute, and he'll usually give a cry/scream or two, then will be out. Any thoughts on how to get him to fall asleep without rocking? He is getting too heavy to make it a pattern!

[sherry lynn]

This is just a thought, so I don't know. I know that it also took me weeks to get the pat/sh thing down - and in hindsight I should have extended my LO time right after we got the hang of it. They usually extend by about 10-15 min a month. It's been a month for you guys so maybe he isn't quite ready to go down when you put him down. Maybe try extending by 5/10/15 min? Even if he is yawning. My LO always gave that tired sign - and I never extended. We didn't make it to 2 hours A time until I went cold turkey at 6 months  

[AshleyB]

Audrey--thanks for your input. Chandler has been on Prevacid for about two months now. The pain is better, but she still refluxes in her mouth at times, which bothers her.

Sherry--She's almost 10 weeks now. The 30 minutes does not include feeding, but does include diapering and changing clothes, etc.

MLC--I have a LO that claws and wrestles with me, too. Today, I think she pushed my thumb out of joint during a feed! I leave my LO to kick and babble in the crib for awhile. If she isn't asleep in 20 minutes, however, I'll pick her back up. I agree with you that the sh/pat in the crib doesn't work unless she's on the verge of sleep anyway. When mine cries out at night, I will often leave her be for a few minutes to see if she puts herself back to sleep, which she does as often as not. I really judge by the tone of her crying. As for sleeping out, I have problems, too. She will fall asleep in her car seat on an outing, but she sleeps lightly  and wakes frequently. She is always overtired when we get home and I have to deal with calming her down and putting her down for an unscheduled nap. However, I keep taking her out because she's just going to have to get used to it. I can't stay on house arrest forever!

OH, btw--had a fascinating revelation yesterday. Chandler was having a meltdown after being in the car for four hours. She was screaming and couldn't be consoled. I asked my sister-in-law to hold her while I vacuumed up a spill in the nursery. And wonder of wonders--she stopped screaming the moment she heard the vacuum and went right to sleep, like someone hit her over the head with a hammer! Wow!

[sherry lynn]

You have to count the feeding in the A time. How long does it take her to feed?

[malenakim]

Hello mommies:) My spirited little chap's name is Dane and he's nearly 6 months.

We are just now transitioning from 3 to 4 hour schedule and ANY advice is greatly appreciated! He's doing great eating solids and we're still breastfeeding. He is, as I'm sure you all have experienced yourselves, a hellion to put down for naps. Night time isn't quite so bad, but there are the occasional scratches, smacks and pinches from my little love. I also can't ever get him to nap while we're out unless it's in the car and that's only after much screaming. 

Any pearls of wisdom you may have would be wonderful! Best of luck to all of you mommies of spirited babies! They might not be easy babies, but they sure have personality!

[BensMamma]

Welcome Melenakim!

[AshleyB]

Hi, Malenakim. Welcome. You're right about the personality, that's for sure! We can all sympathize about the naps here. I know I've got the scars to prove it. Wish I could help you on the transition, but my LO is only 10 weeks. I'm sure someone else can help out, though. Good Luck!

[campbellchick]

I'm also interested in any advice on the 3-4 hour transition.  My LO is about 4.5 months old now and we haven't made that transition yet.  She barely makes the 3 hours for a feed - is usually wanting one by 2.5 hours, no matter how long she has eaten the feed before (she is EBF so I have no idea how much she is actually eating).  Also, she is still only sleeping about 1hr - 1.5 hours for her naps - taking about 4 a day.  She has only just made it to an awake time of 1.5 hours (she has always been 1hr max until recently).  Any advice on the transition would be appreciated...

[malenakim]

Thanks ladies for the warm welcome! It really is comforting to know that there are others out there! Still transitioning, which was going really well and then a few days ago Dane began screaming whenever we walk into his room for a nap. He's fine at night, but he HATES naps. I even climbed in the crib with him for a nap to show him I wasn't abandoning him, but he is on a nap strike! Today he finally took his first nap at 3pm! He will not fall asleep unless you put him to sleep or at least have him so drowsy he can't function. If left to play all day I believe he would. He is, however, making it to the extended feedings pretty well and waking the same time each day, a definite improvement!

[Mileshunt]

Hiya malenakim & Campbellchick, hope the transitioning is going ok. I found this a weird time too. My DD is 9months this sunday and she moved to the 4hr eating pattern quite easily but couldn't do the A time so naps went all over the place, plus the reflux was getting worse so she wasn't sleeping at night great and there was on-off-on-off teething so it was hard to tell what the problem was IYKWIM.  By 6/7 months things were settling down a bit if that's any help.  You could try slowly building up the A time.  I tried following the BWSAYP book but I found it hard to be so rigid with the times especially because we had digestive issues spoiling naps as well as temperament so if she managed to get to sleep I left her until she woke up!!

Now she's on a short nap in the morning, 1.5-2hr nap in the afternoon and can finally just about make it until bedtime without a catnap although she's so zonked we don't have time for a story!! I think that because she's moving constantly and is now pulling herself up she's tiring herself out more.  However she's getting her top teeth and it seems to be hitting her hard because naps are a bit troublesome again unless she's had some bonjela and calpol.  The lateral incisors have come in so she's starting to look like a little vampire!!

Sorry this is waffly but I think you just need to ride this phase out and be consistent.  You'll get there, even by winging it like I did.  Just tell yourself that in the grand scheme of things it's a tiny part of their life and take a deep breath when things are going badly.  Don't beat yourself up if the routine goes to pot.  My advice is to look after yourself, i didn't and paid the price. Take time out for YOU - get DP/DH/mum/friend to look after bubs and have some me time so you'll have the energy to cope.  Hope this helps, let us know how it goes!

Linds x

[campbellchick]

Hi MLC, my LO is a queen at Mantra cries...  I usually leave her be because I actually distract her more by having my presence there with her.  I can tell now if she is not going to go to sleep and if that is the case, I always walk in (maybe if she has been mantra crying and protesting for about 10-15 mins) and put my hand on her chest (or roll her back over if she is on her tummy) and tell her that it is nap time and time to go to sleep.  She usually smiles and giggles at me, so now I do this with a big smile on my face, but a firm voice.  Usually this works, she may protest or mantra for another minute or two, but most of the time she goes to sleep.  Also, if you LO is taking about 30 mins of babbling before going to sleep, this could indicate that she is undertired when you put her down?

If your LO is mantra crying, personally I wouldn't be doing the ssh/pat - especially if you think it won't work.  It can also become a prop if you continue past the point that they need it - the main time to intervene is if she is crying the 'mummmy I need you' emotional cry. 

When you ask if you should have done ssh/pat when your LO was crying hysterically, can I ask, how is she with usually self settling?  Can she do it most of the time and only needs help when she has reflux or have you only just started with sleep training?  Usually the answer would be yes, you should ssh/pat, but my personal thoughts are, we are the ones who knows what works best for our LO's.  If they can self settle most of the time and only occasionally need help because of e.g. reflux, then sometimes you need to do what works best.  however, if you find that you are rocking her to sleep most of the time - that is definitely AP and what she will need to get to sleep most of the time. 

Does your LO fall asleep in her pram at all?  Because my LO is so spirited, she finds it really difficult to fall asleep when we are out and about - which makes it tough to go out for a whole day.  Even when she does fall asleep, it is generally for only 45 mins at the most.  The only way I can get her to sleep is to BF her under a blanket/wrap with all stimulation blocked out - and this is only when she is really tired.  Even then, it is touch and go if she will wake up when I put her back in her pram.  I usually then cover the pram with the blanket so it still blocks everything out.  Have you tried putting your LO to sleep at anyone elses house e.g. in a port-a-cot or on a bed?

Anyway, I hope some of that helps, Kerrie

[meltown]

Hey everyone!

due to the 30 page rule I will be locking thread.  please continue here!

https://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=125995.0