5 Month old on 2 hour routine still :(

[Maralum]

Hello all, 

First time poster, long time whisperer. My first child was easy to whisper with - he was a bottle fed textbook baby. My new one...

A lovely little girl named Freya, I can't even seem to tell what kind of baby she is as she changes every day! She's a very pleasant little thing, just as long as she gets five naps a day and the breast whenever she wants it. Oh and I've done a total accidental job of nighttime sleeping and now she wakes up every two/three hours to suckle but not feed!!!  Mummy is literally...a dummy. 

I'm going to post her routine and ask for your help if anyone can offer it. I'm currently using Pantley's gentle removal method to stop the nursing to sleep, but I'd love to get her into a slightly more sensible routine to see if that will improve her nighttime sleep quality too.

0800 wake and feed - play
0930 fall asleep in the pushchair on the school run
1000 wake and feed - play
1200 nurse to sleep
1230 wake and feed - play
1400 nurse to sleep
1500 wake and feed - play
1630 nurse to sleep
1700 wake and feed - play
1800 nurse to sleep
1815 wake and feed - play
2000 nurse to sleep
2230 wake to snuggle and suckle (no actual eating involved) back to sleep in 20 minutes though.
0300 wake to feed, straight back to sleep.

I'm such a pain in my own butt. She was doing really well, even sleeping 9 hours some nights until I permitted the little madam to nurse to sleep all of the time. Ok ladies, what can I do and where? Please help!

[Grace's Mom]

From the props board....

Gentle removing plan when feeding is a prop
https://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=104192.0

Props Vs. Comfort Item
https://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=67676.0

Here are some breastfeeding links...

Night Feeds and Breastfed Babies
https://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=98183.0

My baby always falls asleep after nursing
https://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=63428.0

I personally think you need to extend those feeds (which you already know ). The older she gets the harder it is going to be to wean and teach these things to her. 

At 5 months your lo should be able to go 4 hours in between feedings...

8am wake a feed...nice big feed
10-11:30 or 12...Nap
12 nice big feed
2-3:30/4...Nap
4 nice big feed
6-6:30 cat nap
8pm feed
8:30 bed

This is just a sample routine of course.

Now because she has been taught to feed before sleep and such, it is going to take sometime to 'fix'.  So with whatever you try just be 100% consistant.  If you give in to old habits she will only get more confused and not know what is expected of her and it will make the weaning process that much harder for her and you.

For your night time waking questions, you can visit NIGHT WAKINGS...
https://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?board=33.0
OR NAPS
https://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?board=30.0

AND HERE IS A LINK FOR THE PROPS BOARD!
https://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?board=28.0

Best of luck!  You are on the right track.   

Melissa

[Samuel's mum]

Have a look at this post too - it reminded me of your situation (hope that's not too cheeky!)
https://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=104550.0

[Maralum]

Woohoo!

 

Thankyou so much for responding, it's working (a little) already! I started Pantley's gentle removal yesterday and she's taking to it - what a great method, no crying, but still with results.

Last night, she went down at 8 and didn't get up for a feed (and it was a proper feed, not just pacification) until 2.30!

I'm going to carry on with gentle removal for the next couple of weeks and then start with pat/shh until she's got the hang of falling asleep n her own, then we'll tackle that awful routine!

Thankyou for all of the advice, I really feel as if I can get this under control now. I hope no-one minds, but I may use this thread as an update page to keep track of our progress - here's hoping.

[Samuel's mum]

 
Good Luck. Do keep us updated.

[Grace's Mom]

Glad things are looking up already.  Wonderful job!

I look forward to the updates and any future questions.

-Melissa

[Maralum]

Hooray!

Not only did Pantley's method only require three removals for the nap that she's having now, but earlier today she went four hours between her 12 and 4 feeds!!!!!!!!!!!!

It was slightly cheat-y, but she nodded off in her pushchair while we were out shopping and skipped her 2pm nurse to sleep. When she woke up, she had a lovely big feed, but was super tired at 6 and needed a little help to drop off. She didn't eat, but just used me as a dummy for literally TWO MINUTES! That's all. Normally it takes fifteen minutes, but we used gentle removal a mere three times and she drifted off in her cot. I'm dancing. The proof will be in the pudding tonight, but I'm going for a no stress approach, if she wakes as usual, I don't mind, I'll take any progress I can get. 

[Grace's Mom]

 

[Maralum]

Well, after my last post, things took a slight down turn, but then improved again.

LO woke from her 6pm nap at about 6.40 and was in a real stinker of a mood! Still very tired, but couldn't get back to sleep. She bobbed on and off the breast (all the time using gentle removal) for the next hour and twenty minutes  . Poor chicken wasa real mess. She finally fell asleep at 8pm and woke up at 10.20 for a feed. Then, she slept until 4.30  . Back up again at 7.30 and happy as a clam. So, we had six hours unbroken sleep!

Will keep trying to stall feeds and nursing to sleep today - not too fussed if it doesn't go to plan though. I'm not willing for either of us to become unhappy. 

[Maralum]

Hello all,

Things have taken a bit of a down turn for us, I'm afraid. After a very promising start, DH and I got sick, then so did the four year old and now it's half term. Very unlucky things when you're trying to set down a routine. I'm hoping to get back into the swing of things when DS returns to school on monday.

We've slipped totally back into the old ways of doing things, probably because I've been unwell - DH is lovely, but tends to hand the baby to me whenever she cries, even when I'm ill. 

Little miss is now awake from three until four thirty each night as well as her usual waking to suckle. Am very tired and could really do with someone coming to live with us for a week to come and tell me what to do! 

Pantley's method seemed to be working, but now just makes her angry and stressed when I try to do it, stretching bedtime suckle from 20 minutes to an hour and a half. Am getting very down. Don't know whether to stop doing it or persist until it works.

[Grace's Mom]

How are you all feeling now?

Are things improving at all since you last posted?

Sorry it took me so long to get back to you.  I just moved across the country (it was  a 2 week process) and wasn't able to get on (I greatly apologize). 

Please let me know if I can help in any way.

Melissa

[Maralum]

Thanks for getting back to me Melissa. Things still not going too well here  . Sometimes we have an EASA and sometimes an EAES, but it's never EASY!  I just don't know what to do. Should I tackle the routine first or the prop-sleeping? I tried to stop her feeding to sleep - she just cried and cried until I cried to, then hiccupped and sobbed her way through a half-hour nap. I tried to get her to go four hours between feeds by taking her out and about, but she only naps for a max of 40 minutes at a time and only then if she falls asleep on the breast or being carried.

I just feel like I'm getting it all wrong. I'm worried about weaning as she has no real routine and I just can't seem to read her cues now. Is she hungry, is she tired? She's lovely during her activity time, but I can't get her to fall asleep on her own! As I'm typing, I realise that it's all down to being fed to sleep. I'm going to have to go back to basics and remove her prop. I'm so worried about leaving her to cry though, I know that she's ok, but I'm not. The sound of her crying makes me feel hot, nauseous and super-stressed. I don't want to get PND again.

Grrr, grrr, grumble, grumble, moan. DH keeps telling me to put her on the bottle, but it would just feel like a waste of breastfeeding for the past six months. Even then, she may refuse a bottle and it may not help even if she did accept it. I have a milion thoughts in my head, probably because I'm so tired and full of nervous energy.

I'll go and check out the props board and see if I can come up with anything new. Thanks again for responding.

[Grace's Mom]

I am sorry you are having such a rough time right now.

I think it is best for you to remove the prop first, like you said.  Definitely check out the props and breast feeding boards for help there.  Take a look at their FAQ's section as there may already be some great advice posted. 

**You can BF and still not feed her to sleep.  If you don't want to use a bottle, then don't. It's up to you.  Either way weaning can be done 

Let me know how things continue.  And remember, "this too shall pass".  If you need any support please let us know.

Melissa