Author Topic: Help! 5am wake ups!  (Read 5590 times)

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Offline Layla

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Re: Help! 5am wake ups!
« Reply #15 on: October 11, 2007, 04:28:31 am »
5pm is fine.... well I have once done 4.30pm before with Jasmine when she only slept for 45mins on her 1st b'day....

A long morning nap can in fact interfere with the afternoon nap so maybe try to chop it by say 15mins (so let her sleep 1.25hrs) & see if she will sleep longer in the pm. Around this age I was cutting J's morning nap to 1hr but if you think thats too short then try 1.25hrs to start with. Yes, keep the pm interval shorter than usually as she is already overtired by the morning nap... so I would have her in the cot BY the 3hr mark.
« Last Edit: October 11, 2007, 04:48:05 am by Isabella&Jasmine's mum »



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Offline chanashleigh

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Re: Help! 5am wake ups!
« Reply #16 on: October 11, 2007, 07:08:56 am »
Thanks Layla. DD soundfully sleeping in bed at 5:10pm....I am not sure if you read the post before my last post and I am really interested in your opinion so I will write it again!

I am not sure how to go about the set meal/bottle times in the morning??? I think I would like it to be 6:30am as this works well for me when I have to go to work which is 3 days out of 7 at the moment. But maybe this won't work once she can start sleeping a little longer in the morning? Is it a bad thing to say no earlier than 6:30am but if she were to wake @ 6 or even 6:15 then she would be having her bottle almost after she wakes? Do you understand what I mean? I know I don't eat breakfast the same time every morning it really depends on when I wake up! I would love to know anyones thoughts on this?

Appreciate all your help and ideas!  ;D

Offline Layla

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Re: Help! 5am wake ups!
« Reply #17 on: October 11, 2007, 07:15:10 am »
Sorry hun, I totally missed the bottle feeding question :-[.

6.30am sounds like a good time to drink a bottle. I wait about 30mins before giving Jasmine her 1st bottle... to be honest she doesn't want it any earlier (she wakes at 6am). Once she starts waking up a little later (hopefully soon ;)) you can see how feels about having her 1st morning bottle just after she wakes (being 6:15 or 6:30am). On the days you work who looks after her? Could they feed her a bottle after you go to work (considering she won't take it from you soon after she wakes?). Some babies also move onto breakfast 1st & then milk after around 12months (or some continue milk 1st & then breakfast later)....




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Offline chanashleigh

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Re: Help! 5am wake ups!
« Reply #18 on: October 11, 2007, 11:02:34 am »
Thats ok! I realise you read and answer so many posts and different questions, thanks so much for replying....

I think my DD (Ashlee) is ok to have her bottle 30 mins or longer after she wakes up but if she starts waking up a little later (fingers crossed ;)) then that might be hard sometimes as I like to feed her before we go. To be honest I am never ready to go when she wakes and the drive to her Grandma's place is about 40 minutes and I just know she won't last that long. I will try with 6:30 but I think that she needs to wake up at least 5:30 for this to happen as I think that making her wait over an hour (5am wake up) might be pushing it a bit. If I was ready when she woke to go straight away then they could certainly feed her the bottle...maybe that might happen if she starts sleeping to 6:30-7am...gosh I feel like those days are truly gone!

Thanks again! ;D

Offline catonss

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Re: Help! 5am wake ups!
« Reply #19 on: October 11, 2007, 14:55:06 pm »
Wow chanashleigh, your scenario is so similar to mine, as far as sleep goes.  Naps are so hit or miss for me too.  Are you able to get your dd back to sleep if she wakes early?  It's SO a no-go for me.  She's an awful screamer if i try.  And after making her scream on so many attempts, i'm deciding she's just not going to do it.

Well, Layla, you asked what my dd's past few days have looked like.  I haven't been writing it down, but i'll try to remember.  I'll start w/ yesterday and go backwards:  (for the E, i'll list 2 times, nursing at the first, solids at the 2nd).  Also, I've been starting the bedtime routine about 35 mins b/f i want her to be sleeping.  I usually only get about 5-10 mins for wind-down in her room.  Wish it could be more, but i've got a 2.5 year old too!  She usually takes b/t 20-30 mins to fall asleep. 

Wed:
woke:  6:45
E:  6:45, 7:45
S:  8:45-10:20
E:  10:30, 11:40
S:  12:25-1:20
E:  2:20, 4:30 (solids), 5:20 bedtime nurse
S:  6:15

And then this morning she didn't wake until 6:20.  So a full 12 hours.  I know that was a super huge wake time after her short 2nd nap, but I've been trying to wait until 6 for bedtime.  I've tried putting her down earlier, and although she goes to sleep fine, it almost always results in a middle of the night wake, or an earlier wake time (in the 5:00 hour).  What do you make of that?  She didn't seem too overtired last night, and went to sleep really easy.

Tues:
woke:  6:10 (but had been awake from 3-4 in the night)
E:  6:30 (i'm not going to list solids today - just know they are usually an hour after nursing)
S:  Didn't fall asleep for morning nap at all
E:  10:15
S:  11-1
E:  2, etc
S:  5:45

That night she woke at 5, and fell back asleep around 6:15 until 6:45

I can't see any pattern with good naps meaning a good night (a few days ago she had two 1.5 hour naps, and i thought that might be the end of waking early - she'd been in a 5 am wake up patten and falling asleep for another 45 mins around 6 - but no.  it didn't seem to help).  And I don't see any connection with bad naps for sure meaning a bad night.  actually, this week, seems like her worst nap days, she slept through the night those nights. 

LIke I said, i've been able to stick w/ the E times pretty well.  And I do feel like we're generally on a 6 to 6 routine.  Although I'd love it to be 7 to 7, i'll live w/ 6 to 6 for now.  Would just love some more predictability and more restful sleep for her.

SO....back to this morning....She slept a great 12 hours last night.  So i thought it would be a good chance to start trying to extend that first A time.  At 1.5 hours, she was showing signs of being tired.  this is when i have been laying her down, so that's not a surprise.  i spent about 7 mins reading books to her while  she squirreled abound in my lap and acted annoyed.  then i walked around and sang for another 5 or so.  she was calm during this.  i laid her down and didn't hear much from her...she fell asleep w/in 10 mins (a lot faster than normal)...so although i extended her wake time by 15 mins, since she fell asleep so fast, she was still asleep by 2 hrs.  Woke up 40 mins later (8:15-8:55).  ARG!!!  Don't know if anyone will read this in time, but what time would you suggest i lay her down for afternoon nap?  We've been doing 3 hrs wake time b/f this 2nd nap.  And quite often, regardless of how long her nap is, she seems on the verge of overtired at that time.  so that would put her at 12 for nap (lay down at 11:30).  I think i'll go a little earlier, but not much.   
 
So, in order to benefit us all on this thread....going back to trying to extend A time, for sure b/f the morning nap....is it probable that it will get worse b/f getting better?  Several days of short overtired naps b/f she can do it?  And if that's the case, why go the slow route?  If she's going to have a short nap anyway, why not have a short nap later in the morning?  You know what i'm getting at?  Then it might help stretch out the day?  Or should I just stick to doing it at small increments?  I thought the point of small increments was to avoid overtired and hopefully they'll give you a good nap....but i don't think this is going to happen in our case.  She seems SO set on the 2 hours awake b/f that morning nap right now.  what do you think about that?  I'd probably try laying her down at 2 1/4 hrs rather than 1 1/2 and see what happens....so 45 mins later, rather that a slower 10-15 mins...?
Sarah

Offline catonss

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Re: Help! 5am wake ups!
« Reply #20 on: October 12, 2007, 02:51:25 am »
Hey -

Just wanted to say that I ended up putting her down for 2nd nap at 11:45 (later than i thought i would b/c we got home late)...and she went down fine and slept 2 hrs. 15 mins!  So she slept until 2:15 and i put her down at 6 for night. 

So i'm still curious what some of you might think about things getting worse b/f they get better when trying to stretch out that first A time. 

Also, I looked, but couldn't find anything on what's suggested for 9 month olds in regards to sleep amounts.  What should a good goal or expectation be for how long the am and pm nap should be at this point?  And when is it typical for the am nap to be shorter than the afternoon?  I know that when my dd has a short first nap (like this morning), she usually ends up having a good afternoon nap and night.  makes me wonder if i should be limiting her am nap?

thanks....
Sarah

Offline Layla

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Re: Help! 5am wake ups!
« Reply #21 on: October 12, 2007, 03:22:04 am »
Hey Sarah,

So with us the rule of thumb was morning A time 3hrs, afternoon 3-3.25hrs & about 3.25-2.5hrs before bedtime

Suggested is actually 2-1.5hr naps & 12hr nights but I have found that alot on this site (myslelf included) have had to shorten the morning nap to 1hr to get a longer pm nap. Alot aren't comfortable with shortening the morning nap so they let their los have a long morning nap & fit in a catnap before bedtime. A long morning nap always meant early wake ups & short pm nap for us.... so Ive always woken J up from her morning nap & done pm nap about 3 hrs later. I guess around 10/11months is when alot of babies start fighting the pm nap as well on a long morning nap & since they start dropping down to 1 nap around 12/13months.... leading up to the transtion many start waking up early from the morning nap (since this is the one thats going to dissapear). So maybe your goal should be 1hr15mins for morning nap & try pm nap 3hrs later. If 1hr15is still too long then you could try 1hr morning...

When making changes, it can take a few days before naps settle so maybe thats what you mean about things getting worse before they get better? With the 2-1 switch when we cut the morning nap to 45mins... it took about 3 days before the pm nap got longer & the same thing when the morning nap was cut again to 30mins...

So looking at your day.... the last A time seems a little long so I think its time to extend the morning A time ;D so that naps are more spread out & she's not OT by bedtime (which is another reason she might be waking up earlier & earlier in the morning)

Also showing "tired signs" that early (like 1.5hrs into her morning) could be that she just needs a change in activity???



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Offline chanashleigh

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Re: Help! 5am wake ups!
« Reply #22 on: October 12, 2007, 08:58:24 am »
Hello again,

I am so tired! My LO's sleeping and naps are not good at all at the moment, they are all over the place just like you LO catonss! :) The last two mornings DD has woken at 4:50am and not gone back to sleep but I have not fed her until 6am and I have put her down at 8:00am. DD does not wake crying she just sits or lyes there until she gets hungry. I hear her babbble every now and again but maybe she just dozes? Anyway...I might try extending that to 8:15am tomorrow and see what happens. I do think that I am going to have cut her morning nap down to at least 1 1/4 hrs to see what happens with her afternoon nap, it just does not seem to go past 45 mins if she sleeps 1.5 hrs or longer. I am hoping that this changes sometime soon! Her second naps seem to be around 12 - 1pm at the moment and they are not very long so its been an early bed time which means an early wake up! I know this will take a bit to see if it helps and I know I need to be patient but geezzz! I suppose there is nothing else I can do is there.

Is it possible that she is waking out of habit?

Offline catonss

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Re: Help! 5am wake ups!
« Reply #23 on: October 12, 2007, 17:17:16 pm »
Chanashleigh -

Just sounds so typical overtired.  I have gone through this so many times w/ both girls - it's just so hard to get out of sometimes!  But it WILL happen, especially being as determined as you are! 

I do wonder if it's habit.  How do you feel about giving W2S a try?  Like I said before, i would do anything to have my dd's wakings happen at the same time every morning, b/c i know how to fix that!  W2S has SAVED both my dd's from time to time.  Let me know if you want to give it a try, and i'll tell you more about what we did.  I've also done it for naps.  About a month ago it was really working for my 9 mo, and sometimes i think it works now.  I don't know - anyone, can you overdo W2S?  I know they recommend doing it for 3 days and up to 2 weeks....i kind of started doing it every time i wondered if it could be a bad/short nap b/c of overtired - but maybe she's so used to being poked it's not effecting her anymore?  Or worse yet, could this start doing more harm than good?  It doesn't seem to be working like it was...

Hang in there!!
Sarah

Offline catonss

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Re: Help! 5am wake ups!
« Reply #24 on: October 12, 2007, 17:24:47 pm »
Layla,

YOu are so helpful - the way you put things just really makes sense to me.  Thank you!

That was very helpful info about "ideal" nap amounts, etc.  How long would you let her sleep in the pm nap if the am nap was really short?  Yesterday and today both am naps were short - 45 mins yesterday, 35 today.  And afternoon yesterday on her own was 2 hrs 10 mins, and today it looks like it's going to be long too (overall an improvement i feel...even though am is really short, at least pm is longer than it was!)  If ideal amount is 3 hrs total (2 naps of 1.5 hrs)...would you let them go over 2 hrs in pm since am wasn't even an hour?  Or cut it at 2 hrs so it's not too long?  W/ the 2 hr 10 min afternoon nap yesterday, she woke in the night for an hour (3-4 am)....but like you said, this could also be b/c of the too much A time b/f night bedtime.  Yesterday it was over 4 hrs again.... I'm going to REALLY try to get it below 4 hrs tonight.  I'll try 3.5.

Thanks!!
Sarah

Offline Layla

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Re: Help! 5am wake ups!
« Reply #25 on: October 12, 2007, 21:51:43 pm »
Sarah to start with try 2hrs pm.,... I would say for her age thats ok.  :)

Chanasleigh - does sound OT - it DOES get better!!! How did yesterday go? It can take about 3-4 days for the body to adjust so even if are pushing the morning nap & shortening it, etc... it might not show results straight away. I had the whole EW's issue for 6 weeks... the 1st 4 weeks where I didn't know what on earth I was doing & kept on pushing her bedtime to a later hour & not until I went backwards to 5pm bedtime, allowed her time to catch up on sleep was I able to change her routine to 6-6. THe last 2 weeks was about adjusting & then finally she slept past 5.30am.... Mind you I still woke at 5am every morning for about 2 months after that waiting for her to coo & start making her "I'm awake now" noises ::)



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Offline chanashleigh

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Re: Help! 5am wake ups!
« Reply #26 on: October 12, 2007, 22:18:09 pm »
Thank god I have you brilliant ladies to talk to! In spite of everything and feeling like I have no idea what I am doing its great to talk about and get some ideas.

Yesterday was not too bad...woke @ 4:50am asleep 8:00am for 45 mins. Apparantly grandma said she woke with dirty nappy and then would not go back to sleep. Back in bed at 11:45 and slept for 1 20 mins which is good for her pm nap. She was awake at 1:10pm though and I had her back asleep @ about 5:20pm.

DD woke what seemed quite a few times last night. This morning (won't mention other times :)) she woke @ 4:00am, 4:50am, and I am sure she went back to sleep to 5:30am. Then she was rather upset and had to go get her. Maybe something was a little wrong or extremely overtired b/c she was pretty grizzly this morning and every time I looked at her she was yawning (poor thing) but I kept her up as long as I could before she falling asleep on my shoulder...asleep @ 8:05am. Could not get to 3 hours, I just had to put her down. Maybe she woke earlier than I thought or just had a terrible sleep. I won't let her sleep past 9:20am though and see how I go this afternoon.

Catonss...I have thought about W2S and I did try it once when Ashlee was very little as she was waking @ 2:15am every morning on the dot. I only did it one night and it seemed to work and never did it again! How did you do it?

I know it will get better...wow 6 weeks Layla! I have to be more patient and I can see myself doing exactly what you did and still woke up at 5:00am!  :) ::)

Offline catonss

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Re: Help! 5am wake ups!
« Reply #27 on: October 15, 2007, 17:18:17 pm »
HI Chanashleigh!

How've the last couple days been?  My dd has caught big sis' cold...so we're just trying to muddle through the best we can.  Actually her sleep has been ok.  Not much worse anyway!  I do think the key for us is going to be getting the A time stretched out in the beginning part of the day.  Thank you Layla for your guidance in that!  And i agree that the stretching out needs to be in the wind-down, not more playing.  that has helped a lot!

So, as far as wake to sleep goes.  I have used this a lot w/ this baby.  I didn't use it much with my first, i was too scared.  But i'm using with her (my 2.5 yr old) now - and it fixed her early am wake ups (she was stuck on 6 am, and it wasn't enough sleep for her).  Anyway, we did it with dd's 3 am habitual wakings a few months ago.  Did it just like the book says - set the alarm for 2 and went to her and nudged her - enough so that she opened her eyes or changed position.  The first 2 nights it didn't work.  She woke at 3 anyway.  But the 3rd night it worked.  And we kept it up for about 10 days to make sure it stuck.  And then we had 12 hrs sleep for a few months!  What we're dealing with now isn't habitual....but if it was, i'd be doing w2s as fast as i could!  I'd just say don't be surprised if it doesn't work the first few days.  And the big fear of waking up the baby - well, that happened a few times too, and she was up for a while, but i figured she was either going to be up then or at 3, so big deal!  For anyone who might have an older child who is thinking about doing w2s....mine wakes up every time.  But before i did it the first time, i told her i was going to check on her in the night and see her happy sleeping.  So when she woke up, i was able to say "remember i said i was going to check you?  i'll help you lay down again"  Now, if i have to do it, she's so used to it, i just say "i'm just checking you" and she goes back to sleep in a second...

Sarah
Sarah

Offline catonss

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Re: Help! 5am wake ups!
« Reply #28 on: October 15, 2007, 17:36:14 pm »
OK....this is probably a question for Layla (or whoever!) 

So for us, with naps....these last 2 days she's taken a good morning nap (we've gotten to about 2 hrs 15 min awake time b/f this nap) - and i've had to wake her at the 1.5 hr mark.  Then b/f pm nap she's getting tired around 2.5 hrs awake time, and i've stretched her to lay her down at 3 hrs.  Yesterday she didn't take a pm nap at all.  Today she stayed awake for another 1/2 hr and slept for 1/2 hour.  What do you make of that?  Still a little tired b/c we're trying to stretch her A time?  Or too big of a first nap? 

She will again have a big A time at the end of the day (i hate this cycle!!).....and these last few days i've been putting her down earlier (5:30) to help it not be such a big A time, but i feel like it's making her wake earlier.  It's been hard to hold her off till 6:30 to eat, b/c i think she's hungry since the last feed was at 5 pm the night before.  I really think we have better luck putting her down at 6, even if the A time is huge b/t pm nap and night. 

thanks!
Sarah

Offline chanashleigh

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Re: Help! 5am wake ups!
« Reply #29 on: October 17, 2007, 11:47:04 am »
Hi there!

Well the last 5 days have been all over the place really as my LO had a virul infection and she was just tired and miserable and suffering high fever's. Things are starting to look better now so I am going to do exactly as Layla suggested and try to stretch the am wake time. To be honest the last few mornings have been a blessing as she has not woken until about 6am but I think that its just her body trying to beat this infection so we will see what happens in the next few days when she is back to her normal self.

I hate to say this as I really don't like DD being sick and unhappy but putting her to sleep was a nice change for a few days, it was just so easy as she has been fighting naps with me for the last month. Gosh that sounds awful but it was nice to have a hassle for a change and spend lots of time trying to get her to sleep!  :-[

Thanks for the tips on w2s catonss, will see how I go. Sounds like you are giving it a good go with your little one and extending her am awake time! I have certainly dealt with days where Ashlee has not slept at all in the pm and its really hard and yes means an early bed time. Sometimes I have persisted and spent almost 2 hrs to get her to sleep! I had to do that today as she only slept for 45 mins and I could not get her to go back to sleep so I just gave up and thought it has to be a 5:30pm bed time. Once she is fully recovered I am going to try and shorten her am nap down to an hour to see if she sleeps longer in the pm. I find that my LO sleeps better in the pm if she sleeps shorter in the am, well thats what seems to happen when she is not with me! Go figure.....Maybe you could try shortening the am nap as Layla suggested, just by 15 mins at a time and then only keeping 2nd awake time to 3 hours depending on am awake time if you know what I mean. I am going to try this anyway so I will let you know how it all goes. :)

Keep in touch!  ;D