2 year old waking early

[Lola]

Hi Ladies-Haven't posted in awhile so now I need your advice
My 2 year old just finished cutting her last 2 yr molars. TG
In any case, over the last two weeks or so she has been getting up earlier and earlier.
She goes to bed for 7pm and that's been the same forever. She's asleep within 2 min with no struggles. The struggle becomes worse if we try to extend her bedtime coz then she gets very overtired.
She still naps for 1 1/2 hours at daycare-usually awake by 2 or 3 at the very very latest if she's had an event (ie teething etc). She's almost potty trained and has been cruising along nicely in that dept.
i thought maybe she was waking early coz of her teeth which she always breaks patterns when she is teething or constipated or something. I know bc it's always the same and it always reverts back to normal once the tooth has cut through. This time though, I think that she is habitually waking at 6am now and I have no idea how to get her back down for another 45 min at least. Internal clocks are a bugger! She won't go  back to sleep so I bring her into bed with me (we do NOT co-share) for the next 1/2 hour of quiet time. (I'm not ready to get up). She does not have her own bedroom as we are a couple of rooms short and her crib is kitty corner to our bed.  She will lie quietly with me for usually about a 1/2 hour so I KNOW she is still tired. She slept in once early in the week and that was it! I've asked her to go back to sleep and she gets mad but has no problems lying quietly with me but won't go back to sleep. She's miserable by about 11am-her nap is at 12:30 so that hour or so is MISERY!
Suggestions would be very grateful. Is this a habitual waking and how do I break it?

Sleepy Laura and Madelaine

[Layla]

You could try w2s if its habitual waking... about an hour before she wakes you could try & stir her.

Otherwise I would think that her sleep requirements are changing & that she might only need 11hrs at night with a 1.5hr nap... I would probably try to offer her a nap a little earlier (12pm) with a 7pm bedtime & then in about a weeks time maybe try to push her nap & bedtime 30mins later so that she wakes a little later...

hth
Layla

[Finnegans Mom]

I have a 2.5 ds that has been waking up by 5:30 am since July.  He is ready to go face the day, will not lay down in our bed.  Has started to turn on his light and play instead of coming in to wake us up.  He knows I'm displeased.  DH says to let him play.. but he is so cranky by late morning and ready for a nap.  I've started moving everything a bit later, nap, dinner, bed time.  Nothing is working.  So, here is my question... How much sleep does a 2.5 year old need?  I think it should be more than he is getting.  I've tried cutting his naps down.  At the most, he is sleeping 2 hrs.  Should they be less than that?  Cut out all together?  I haven't done gone in there an hour before to stir him... does that work?  Since we are putting him down later and he is getting up earlier, we feel like we don't have our evenings or mornings.  Would love any help or suggestions.

Thank you!
Jill

[Layla]

Can you post your routine please? 2 hrs might be too much for him... my dd is down to 1hr - 1.5hrs at the most so you might have to cut it down even more... but it would help to see how his day is overall

thanks
Layla

[Two mummies]

Watching with interest here because our 2 and a quarter year old has been doing the exact same thing only her wake up time has shifted to 5.15am!!!

At this stage we are looking forward to daylight savings when it will become 6.15am!

We have tried shifting bedtime gradually but nothing is working. She sleeps 1.5 to 2 hours during the day and seems to really need that nap. Goes down about 6.30pm and is fast asleep by 7.00pm.

Maybe it's just a horrible phase? But does that mean they will grow out of it?

Soph

[Layla]

Soph... at around that age Bella's night sleep went down to 10.5hrs & nap down to about 1.5hrs. So you might want to try & put her down to bed a little later.... but then again with daylight savings it will be 6:15... is that too early for you?

Did you want to post your routine? I also had to push Bella's nap to 6hrs A time otherwise she would wake at 5-5.30am for the day.

[Two mummies]

Riley's routine:

5.15am wake-up (generally sings and plays in crib until 5.30am)
12.00 to 12.30 nap (sleeps 1,5 to 2 hours, put down time varies at daycare but never been a problem before)
6.30pm bed (7.00pm falls asleep)

We are going to try and shift her bedtime slowly by half an hour but we are waiting to see the impact of daylight savings before we try and tinker any more. Also her big girl bed is due for delivery in a couple of weeks so that will no doubt upset the apple cart!

Soph

[Layla]

I think if she's napping at 12.30 for 1.5hrs then 6.30 might be too early for her... so you could probably try for a later bedtime (you know add 25 mins of so every couple of days). Bella at that age was doing:

6-6.30 - wakes
12.30 - nap (1.5hrs)
7pm - bedtime (asleep by 7.30pm).

But like you said wait for daylight saving & then the big bed before you make changes. If she's up & happy then just let her be... plus if you're surrounded by trees (like our house is) I would imagine the birds being up nice & early & possibly thats whats waking her up as well. Bella started to wake with the biurds at 5-5.30am in the morning so even with daylight savings she'll be back to 6am starts. I have shifted her schedule already so she goes to sleep at 6pm (which will be 7 soon)

[Finnegans Mom]

Now, you've made me think he's sleeping too long for his naps... he just seems sooo tired.  I wake him if he sleeps more than 2 hours. 

Finn's schedule:
Awake 5:30 am - take him back to his big boy bed and he plays (would love it if he sleeps)
6-6:30 am bouncing off the walls, ready for the day
Nap 12:30 - 1ish (2 hours at the most)
Bed time 7:30 -8ish

I've been trying to push everything 1hr later... Nap at 1:30, bed at 8-8:30 to see if that would work and it defiantly has not.  Some nights he falls asleep at 9pm and still wakes at 5:30.  The time change in California is to "Fall Back" so what is 5 am now becomes 4 am in a few weeks.  Right?  That just sounds horrible.  Why we have a time change is beyond me.  It just messes with them.

So, if I wake him up after only 1.5 hrs (yucky for me... I like those 2 hrs) then his bed time would be 7-7:30 pm.  It just seems like he needs the nap, he's so tired from waking up so early. 

I'll give it a try...

I'm desperate for some relief.

Cheers,
Jill

[Two mummies]

Hey Jill,

Your daylight savings change sounds like it will make things worse for a while in contrast we are looking forward to ours!!!

I have thought about shortening Riley's naps as well. Nothing we can do about it at daycare though. Like you I think Riley can use her long daytime nap, I mean if she wasn't tired she wouldn't sleep for two hours no???

I don't know what to make of it all. I can only shorten Riley's naps on non-daycare days (3 days a week) and I don't think that will be consistent enough to see a change in her overall sleep pattern.

Have to say though it reminds me of the 2 to 1 transition....that period of a couple of months where we knew she was tired but she wasn't capable of having two sleeps. Maybe the answer is shortening their daytime naps?

I might try and keep a diary of her daytime nap lengths and wake-ups the next day (daycare keeps records) and see if there is a relationship.

Soph

[Katet]

I'm reading all the posts & relating to my own almost 2.5yo & the "averages" for a 2-3yo which are average of 13 hours total for 2yo & 12 total for a 3yo. From what I have read the curve from 2 to 3 is not straight as many will actually drop to 12hours by 2.5yo & others stay at 13 until almost 3yo (certainly the case with my 2 children)
Also from a study I read girls tend to need less sleep earlier than boys (on average) as they are developmentally ahead of boys (my lower sleep need child is developmentally advanced - so makes sense to me)
So I'm thinking it probably isn't about needing more sleep, but about changing the routine... I know my 2yo needs 7- 8 hours awake time before he can nap(yes 7-8 hours)  & generally sleeps roughly 8pm- 6am with a 1.5-2hour nap. If I shorten his nap he actually wakes at 5am & I still can't get him to bed before 8pm, so this is what works for us.

[Two mummies]

It's hard working with averages when all our kids are individuals!!!!!

I think the only way we could accommodate shorter sleeping hours overall would be to drop the bedtime back a bit but neither myself or her Mama are that keen on a late bedtime. By late I mean anything past 7.00pm in bed.

We have been telling each other that it's time Riley ate dinner with us, she currently eats tea at 5.30 to 5.45pm. Basically we love the fact that she's all tucked in and we can have grown up dinner by ourselves at 6.45pm I guess we could bite the bullet and introduce family tea at 6.00pm and then have her in bed by 7.00pm and hope this extends her half an hour in the morning.

As I said earlier on the thread all bets are off until we ease into daylight savings and the big girl bed arrives. But thanks to all who have provided advice!

Soph

[Katet]

I agree it is hard working with averages & averages are odious , esp since I have a 4yo who sleeps 12.5 hours & a 2yo who does about 11.5 total in 24hours.
But my point is they do give an indication of what is "normal & reasonable" & can show they most probably need & in that matter averages are good to give an idea about realistic amounts
For us we had to take a big step about 3months ago when we realised that there was no way we were going to get even 12 hours from our 2yo. (until that point he had actually slept 13+ hours)  We tried 6.30pm bedtimes & all sorts of things to cover for overtiredness... but I can tell you a week of 4am starts was not good & I had to realise that he'd just made a huge developmental jump & actually didn't need the same amount of sleep... he is a much happier child now we aren't trying to get more sleep from him & I can live with the 8pm bedtime if it means 6am rather than 5am starts to the day.

[Finnegans Mom]

Thank you for all your suggestions.  I've always said that it will be much easier if they came with instruction manuals.  Last night ds did much better, although we went to Disneyland (we live in S. Cali) ... so he had a very busy afternoon.  Fell asleep in the car (never did that before at bedtime).  Slept the whole night and started playing in his room around 6:15.  Heaven!  I'll watch his naps and wake after 1.5 hrs and just see how the evening goes.  I would love a 7-7:30 bed time, but I'll take 7:30-8 pm.

I'll update after a few days.

Cheers,
Jill