over a month of NW

[lcpopelka]

Hi all,

I recently posted in the nap section, but since our issues just seem to be all over, I though I would post here too.

My ds, 26 weeks old, used to sleep all through the night from 6 wks until about the 5 mo time.  Then he started waking up at 12am almost on the nose.  He would then wake up again at 4am to feed (this I am okay with since I don't do the df at 10/11 pm due to a low breastmilk supply).  Then about a month ago he started waking up at 11:30, 12:30, 2:30 and 4:30.  I am at a loss of what to do.  My husband and I have tried the PU/PD (totally es him off) and while we do have some success with the shh/pat, we are still having to wake up 4 times a night to do it while seeing no improvement.  These wakings are just not going away!  Especially the 12am one.  We are getting so desperate that we are seriously considering letting him CIO which I am loathe to do.  But it's almost like separation anxiety and he cries just to see if we will come running. 

His daytimes are improving (though he could do with a touch more A time all around)  See my previous posting: https://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=105754.0.  While I've got him to where he'll now sleep for the 1.5 hours I require of him in the AM our PM is still a bit wonky.

I'm looking for advice on how to stop him from these constant NWs.  Please help!

[everhopeful]

I don't have any advice for you as I am looking for help with the same issue!  I just wanted to send you some hugs and let you know that I feel your pain, frustration, and tiredness.  I hope you are able to find dome answers soon. 

everhopeful

[Bryony]

Hi there

Can you post your current routine for us? I had a quick look at the one on the naps board - but I wasn't sure where you were at now that his naps had improved! 

Please please don't resort to CIO, although I know you must be feeling so tired and frustrated right now.  It may not work - and it can damage the trust he has in you. Hopefully we can come up with a better plan 

What does he do when he wakes up and how do you currently help him to get back to sleep?

Bryony

[lcpopelka]

Okay our schedule in process:
7:45 Wake
8:00 BF
9:30 Sleep (took first 2 hour nap today! Hurray!)
12 BF
1:40 Sleep (woke several times)
3 Activity
3:30 BF
5 Sleep
6 Cereal
7 Bath
7:30 BF / Sleep

When he wakes he gets his binky, and we'll shush him until he returns to dreamland, but while this gets him back to sleep this isn't helping with the wakings themselves.  Sometimes he wakes up SO MAD that I have to pick him up to resettle.  Then I do the shhing again.  But there is no drowsy grunts or murmurs--it's always straight to total crankiness.

Any ideas?

[Bryony]

OK, and how long is each nap - you say the morning one was 2 hrs today - how long is the afternoon one?  Is the catnap 45 mins?

How does he go to sleep in the first place?  I am wondering whether it might be the dummy (I assume that's what a binky is?) and whether he needs this to sleep. So if he half wakes up he can't get back to sleep without it.

Bryony

[lcpopelka]

Hi Bryony

Our naps are in transition as I really am trying to get them straightened out and out of the 30/45 min nap habit.  So for the past 4 days his morning naps have been 1.20 to 2 hr.  His afternoon naps are what I am working on right now and they range still from the 45 min-1 hr mark (trying to get them to 1.5 hr).  He's coming down from the 4 short naps a day, so his last nap typically is 30-45 min.  In fact today is the first day I think we actually made it to just 3 naps so I can post a little bit later as to how long the last one was today.  He does go to sleep with his binky (paci/dummy) sometimes but he doesn't always need it.  Lots of times I can get him to fall asleep without it.  I play music for him during the day, but never at night (and never have).  Do you really think the binky is a prop?  His sucks his fingers, never his thumb, but he does it so loudly that it keeps him up, so that's why the binky was given to him in the first place.

Why do you think he wakes at precisely the same time every night???

[lcpopelka]

One more question--say he wakes up from his catnap at 5:30, but then normally doesn't go to bed until 7:30/8--would you consider moving his bedtime up to adjust?  Could that be why he's NW? Wouldn't that make him wake earlier in the AM?

[lcpopelka]

Okay so his last catnap lasted for 30 min.  It ended at 5:10, and he typically goes to bed at 7:30.  I knew he would be wayyyy OT so I moved his bedtime routine up to where he would be in bed by 7pm--unfortunately he was up there crying until 7:30 exactly when he fell asleep.  What to do, what to do? 

[Bryony]

Hi there

Yes in general I would move bedtime earlier if the catnap ends at 5:10pm - I would go for a bedtime around 6:45.  It sounds strange but an earlier bedtime can actually lead to a longer night's sleep rather than early wakening - and can help them sleep better if they are not overtired.  It's hard to know (esp via the computer!!) but I wonder if the half hour's crying tonight was also OT. 

The waking at the same time every night is because a night-time sleep cycle is around an hour long in babies (then it changes to 1.5 hrs at some point as for adults). So they come into a light sleep every hour and kind of half wake up. If they are nice and sleepy and relaxed they will just shuffle around a bit and go back to sleep, but if they are overtired and a bit hyper they wake up - bling! - and can't get back to sleep. 

A 30 minute catnap might suggest overtired as well - was the PM nap short and the A time between PM nap and catnap a little long?  Maybe on days when you get a short PM nap you will still need to get in 4 naps in total - with two 45 min catnaps in the afternoon. When Katie (a determined 45 mins napper) was that age we had a 1.5 hr nap AM, then 45 mins at lunchtime, the I would put her in the buggy and go for a walk and she would usually dose off for a second 45 min nap - then we had another 45 min catnap in the late afternoon.

I can see that you are working on those naps and it sounds like you are doing great! I do think that if you can sort the naps out the night times should get better too. And personally I would keep that last A time really really short,... 

And yes the dummy could be a prop - but I think there is some OT going on too!

HTH

Bryony

[lcpopelka]

I think my issue is that I'm running out of time in the evenings.  He just started cereal so it can take anywhere from 30-45 min to get him to eat it.  So if he wakes up at 5:10, I feed him immediately, which takes until almost 6.  Then he has a bath which takes about 40 min (he gets medicene, likes to splash etc...) so now we're already at 6:40, then I feed until 7ish.  Last night while I laid him down at 7, he was up until 7:40 almost (I think that might be OT too, but my little Goldilock's room temp was a touch too high as well, so that might have been a factor as well).  He did sleep through the 12am waking though, and only woke up at 4am to feed.  But then the little monkey was up and talking to himself from about 6-6:40 this morning (quietly at first, but then stared to rev up so I had to turn on his music) I think he finally went back to sleep by 6:45, but now it's almost 8 and he's not up!  I'm going to have to wake him here soon, and that will just mean that he'll start his day out already tired... *sigh*

[Bryony]

Can you give him his cereal at another time of day?

[lcpopelka]

Thought about that tactic, but since I bf, my milk supply is lowest in the evenings and I used the cereal as a sort of "tank up" scenario to get him good and filled up before bed.  He hates formula of all kinds, so supplementing with that is not an option and I don't have the milk to do two rounds that close together.  I think I need to work on extending that afternoon nap, which in turn would push back his catnap to a bit later and then I think we would be good to go (until the time change that is, or teething, or whatever he has next up his sleeve)

[Bryony]

Yep - there's always something!

That sounds like a good plan - good luck and hugs...

In terms of the cereal - not sure if that's more or less filling than milk - milk is surprisingly high in calories!  Have you looked for advice on the BF board about increasing your supply?

Hope it goes well

Bryony

[lcpopelka]

Really, really don't want to jinx this but for the past two nights he's slept from 8-6.  Thank God.  We were off to a rough start yesterday morning, but I was able to get him to take a 4th 45er at 5:45-6:30.  I think the less time up in the PM is what really helps.  Thanks Bryony!

[Bryony]

That's fantastic!! So you  must be along the right lines..