Almost 10 m/o with recent NWs???

[lesorl]

I really hope somebody can help...

The last 4 nights my lo has woken up crying, and the time she's awake is increasing.  I think she's teething (aren't they always?), is getting over a cold, and is working on walking.  She's also in between 1 and 2 naps.  Last night she went to bed at 6:30pm, and woke up at 1:30am.  She didn't go back to sleep until after 3am, and then was up again at 5:15am.  She stops crying when I enter her room, but I don't think it's separation anxiety as after I lay her back down she tries to go to sleep. 

I was a little early with naps yesterday, so she only got 2 X ~45 mins. 

5:35am- Crying
6:30am Awake
S 9:45am-10:30am
S 2pm- 2:53pm
Bed at 6:30pm

Any advice?

[rob1lu2]

If it's the walking, do you give her plenty of time to practice during the day?

She doesn't seem to be getting much daytime sleep. Has that been going on the four days that she's had the nightwakings?

[lesorl]

She gets plenty of practice walking during the day.  If she's not sleeping or eating, we're at the playground walking around.  My back hurts!

Believe it or not, the 2 45 min naps is actually better than previously, 3 37 minute naps.  Her sleep signs are confusing, as she starts that at least 45 mins before she's ready to take a decent nap.  She was sleeping through the night fine with the 3 37 minute naps, so I don't know what to make of it (or do differently).

[rob1lu2]

She gets plenty of practice walking during the day.  If she's not sleeping or eating, we're at the playground walking around.  My back hurts!

Believe it or not, the 2 45 min naps is actually better than previously, 3 37 minute naps.  Her sleep signs are confusing, as she starts that at least 45 mins before she's ready to take a decent nap.  She was sleeping through the night fine with the 3 37 minute naps, so I don't know what to make of it (or do differently).

LOL!  Sorry about your back!

Maybe her sleep signs aren't confusing and she just needs a longer wind down. Also, I wouldn't fear the multiple short naps in one day to help her catch up on her sleep. When my LOs are tired and keep waking early from their naps, I resign myself to a day of short A times and 4-45 minute naps. I only have to do this for a little while to help them catch up.

For the teething I recommend the Hyland Teething Tablets. I gave them to one of my girls one time when she was REALLY going at it. It was like heroin - she relaxed immediately and fell asleep.

What do you mean when you say you were a little early with naps?

Also, it seems to me that it's a bit early for her to transition from 2-1 naps. I thought that usually happened at a year old or later. But what do I know - I have seven month olds.

Lu

[lesorl]

If she would take more than 2 naps, I would give her less A time, but she refuses to nap before 3 hours + for the 1st A time.  And she's not sleeping 30 mins, which for her means OT.    That's what I mean when I said I was a little early- I think she needed more A time, and that's why she only slept 45 mins.

I have the Hyland tablets, but I've been using Motrin at night.  Maybe I'll try the tablets tonight and see if it makes a difference.

I thought she was a bit early for the 2 to 1 transition too, but all signs point in that direction.

[Bryony]

Hi there

I'm a bit confised about your normal nap routine - you say yesterday was a bit out-of-the-ordinary - so what is a more usual day?

I agree with PP - sounds like she is a bit low on daytime sleep and that the NW's may be due to overtiredness?

Bryony

[lesorl]

Up until a few weeks ago, our nap routine was 3 short naps of about  37 mins each (one sleep cycle).  After increasing A times, she slept like a dream for a week with 2 naps of at least 1 hour each.  Then her naps were shortening, and I started increasing A times again.  The last few days, I seem to be putting her down to early for her naps, so she only sleeps about 40-50 mins (even though she shows tired signs).  Before this week, she was sleeping through the night since 4 months.

So her naps have lengthened in the last 2 weeks, but just this week we began night wakings.

Is that clearer?  I'm desperate for some sleep!

[rob1lu2]

Let me see if I have this right - she refuses to nap before three hours for the first A time so...

7am Wake and Eat
7:30-10:00 Activity
10-10:37/45 Sleep
11:00 Eat
11:30-?2:30? Activity
2:30-3:15 Sleep
3:30 Eat
6:30 Bedtime

The 3 37 minute naps were better because she was getting more sleep! How can we get back to that!

Have you tried moving her bedtime up so she can catch up on her sleep for a few days? I might recommend putting her down way way earlier - as early as 5:30, just for two or three days, so she can catch up on her sleep. Because honestly, if she wakes at 5:30am and cries until she "wakes" at 6:30, that kid is exhausted! I know you know that and there's nothing like a complete idiot...I mean a complete stranger, to tell you what you already know. But she she needs to catch up on her sleep somehow!

On the days my girls wake up at 5:30, their bedtime is 6:00-and that is stretching it.

How is she when you put her down for the night? Easy? Fighting you? Ready for it?

[lesorl]

Well I'm just confused... I think you're right, she's completely exhausted.  Yesterday after waking at 5am, she took her 1st nap after 4 hours 30 mins A time and slept 70 mins.  After another 3 hours, she slept 30 mins but I managed to extend another 80 mins.  Bedtime was 6:50pm, and though she woke crying at 9:30pm and 4:30am for a few mins, she slept until 7:25 this morning.

Today, she slept an hour after 4 hours 30 mins, so I guess I need to extend the morning A time.  She's up since 12:50pm, so I guess it's an early bedtime about 5:30pm, as another nap will cut into her night sleep.

Correct?

[Bryony]

Hi there

So glad last night was better!

I wouldn't extend the morning A time just yet - not after one day of an hour's nap. I would always leave it at least three days before assumingn this is the new "pattern" - you often get a one-off!  4.5 hrs seems like a long A time sfor her age, so I would be cautious about going any longer than that, and would consider shortening it if she shows any tired signs before then.

So today was it her first nap, or her second nap, that ended at 12:50pm? Personally I would add in another nap, even if it's a short catnap - certainly Katie would never get through until bedtime, even an early one, without one. But as we all know they are all different...  how long was the second nap?  The shorter it was the more inclined I would be to add in a catnap otherwise she will be very low on daytime sleep again.

 Bryony
 

[lesorl]

Hi Bryony-

The first nap ended at 12:50pm- and it's now 5:23pm, and she's not acting tired at all.  Bedtime is usually around 7pm, but I planned on putting her in earlier.  If she sleeps after about 4pm, she won't go to bed until about 8pm.

Now I don't know what to do!

[EllenS]

FWIW, lesorl, my almost 9-month-old is doing very similar things - and is sooo overtired.  i thought it was entirely due to our life disruptions (see thread in lounge, "Lord, what have i done?")

But it's possible it's also something developmental to do with their age.

[Bryony]

Lesorl... oh sorry you had such a topsy-turvy day!  Personally I would have got another nap in there  - but maybe that's just me. For Katie, overtiredness is The Enemy and if she's overtired we get really horrible NWs.    We sometimes have a catnap ending at 6pm and then bedtime at 7:30pm. I always think there's no way Katie will go to sleep, but she does...

Do you wait for tired signs before putting her down for a nap, or do you put her down before?  Some mums find that if they wait for tired signs thier LO is already overtired by then so you have to do a bit of trial and error to find the right A time and then go by the clock a bit.  Otherwise they get a second wind and don't look tired at all even though they're well into OT land

Do you do a wind-down before naps?

I hope the night wasn't too bad - and today's another day!  HUGS

Bryony

[lesorl]

Byrony,

I put her to sleep at 6:12pm, which I think was fine but a car alarm outside her window woke her for a bit at 7:25pm, and a few cries at 2:30am, but I didn't need to go to her.

My lo is spirited, and so her tired signs are tough.  I think I was putting her down too early when she first yawned or had an eye rub, and was getting 37 min naps.  Afraid to extend the A time b/c I feared OT.  Now it seems she shows tired signs for about an hour before she'll actually have a good nap (> 1 hour), so that's what I've been going by.

Yes, we wind down before naps.

Today I put her in at 11am for 1st nap after waking at 6:25am, and I think it may be a little early.  If she only sleeps an hour, that'll take us until noon, but she won't go for another nap before 5pm, and then she won't go to bed before 8ish.  Tonight's bedtime might be 5:15pm.

[Bryony]

Oh drat for the car alarm       Sounds like you had a great night last night though - good stuff!

It's hard to know what to say - her A time seems very long for her age, but I hear what you say about playing with it to get decent naps. With us we get 45-ers if Katie is either undertired or overtired so it's really hard to know whether to adjust up or down     

My hunch is still that any NWs are due to low daytime sleep though - but I am afraid I am not really sure what to suggest in terms of solving it     If you take her for a car ride or buggy ride before it's her nap time does she fall asleep?  Some people say that would suggest an overtired LO and indicate that A times need to be shorter.   Unless your LO is like mine and will never sleep in a car...

Hopefully others will have some ideas.  Hugs to you in the meantime and hoping no car alarms this evening!

Bryony