anyone want to chat about the 2-1 nap switch , thread#3

[lesorl]

I'm fuming right there with you...5:30am wake up, 30 min nap followed by a 24 min nap, and PD is currently going on.

Good times!

[NiknLily]

 

I so know how you all feel, but believe me it does get better, they will come out the other side, it's just the most horendous thing when your stuck in the middle of it and it feels like its never ending.

HUGS to all of you who are having it tough at the minute.

Leslie did you try the W2S?

[October]

New Mum, that's a comfort to know. We always forget that part and you're right to remind us.

Talking of which, after an horrendous bedtime ordeal Bubba went down at 6.55pm and woke today at 6am ! Now I just have to avoid blowing it. To begin with I've shaved 15 mins. off his first A time and will ensure he's in bed for 6.30pm.

Trouble is with my LO we never seem to have lasting consistency with sleep times/lengths. That's what is so hard.

I hope you ladies all fair better over the w/e.

Take care,
Deb 

[lesorl]

new mum,

i did try w2s at about 20 mins, but that didn't work.  i was going to try 15 mins yesterday, but she was already stirring when i opened the door so i just left her, and wound up with 30 mins.  yesterday afternoon she was up for 5 hours (wouldn't sleep at grandma's) and then slept 24 mins.  ugh.

don't know what to do next...

leslie

[NiknLily]

Oh, Leslie 
I know you know this already but she is just sooooooo OT at present which is why nothing seems to be working. 

Have you started doing PD for naps? or are you still rocking?  Its really not what you should be doing, but when you rock to sleep do you keep her in your arms while she sleeps.  Not what you want to be doing with a toddler but I'm thinking if you could get 2 good naps that way and an early bedtime (fingers crossed for a good night  ) you might find it really helps to get her over the extreme OT.  I think I said, for me it got to the point where Lily went 6-6.5hrs A time one day before crashing out and she then slept for 2.5hrs, it was far from my idea of a good day but it helped so much to get her out of the OT rut.  Just FYI we also had 2 occasions where she had a no nap day  was amazed how she coped but the night and next day where awful 

Desperate times sometimes call for desperate measures.

[lesorl]

new mum,

thank you so much for the support- i'm losing my mind!

yesterday hubby held her for an hour, and then she slept another 40 mins in the crib.  then we had a good night, 6:30pm-6:30am, with no nws.  But this morning i started early for wind down and she didn't want to go to sleep so i started pd for naps.  ugh- 50 mins later and she's sleeping, but she'll be up in 30 mins.  i guess i'll let hubby rock her this afternoon again.  do you think i should keep letting him do that over the next few days, but continue PD for nighttime, to catch up on some sleep?

i'm so tired of this!!

thanks again for the guidance,
leslie

[lib]

Hi Leslie
hang on in there, as New Mum says it does get better!  My DD was doing the same, and is still erratic, but what I am now trying to be is consistent.  I am sticking to a schedule of nap times and bed time, as before I was going with how long she slept so the times she went down for naps and bed would vary hugely by day - and I was always calculating what time she should be in bed - it was becoming a nightmare!  Now I am finding it easier mentally - altho Lily is still erratic I find I can cope with it better.  In terms of getting her back to sleep my version is going in and putting my hand on her head, saying nothing and gradually withdrawing it as she calms down.  Works mostly.  I think my tip is be consistent with whatever you do - that's what I have learnt.  I will let you know how I am getting on with this consistency as I have only been doing it for a couple of days (and she has a cold so it's proving a challenge!!!!!!)
Lib

[katemom]

Hello everybody, just wanted to say I am really glad this thread exists.  I haven't posted much lately, but I read all the new posts and feel like I'm learning through everybody else's experiences.  There is so much good information & suggestions here!  My lo is doing pretty well I guess, but we have days where I don't have a clue what to do with her schedule!  We'll have 3 days in a row of smooth and ideal one nap days, and then bam, it's crazy weird again for a few days.  I just try to be flexible and adjust and it's so annoying how erratic this all is!  But it's nice to know there are many of us getting through this!

Good luck to everybody!

katemom

[jmoran544]

OK. I am going to take everyone's advice and put down my 14 month old twins no more than 5 hrs A time for their first nap. Since 5:30 seems to be the current wake time, then I will put them down for a 10:30 am nap.

If and when I put them down for a second nap, when should that be? Today dd slept until noon, and ds slept until 12:30. I put them down today at 4pm for a catnap, hoping they will fall asleep.

Does anyone have any suggestions for the days they refuse a catnap? I do not want them to scream for 30 minutes, if I can avoid it, but I want them to have the opportunity to rest, if they refuse sleep. Since gas is too expensive, I would like other options than driving and having them nap in the car. On nice, warmer days walking is on option, but they are few and far between in the winter months. Anything else work for anyone? And what time should they go to bed if they don't take a catnap?

[sorayas mom]

Hello Ladies. I have posted in awhile.  Things have been going pretty well and my computer has been broken, so that has kept me away.  I think we've suceeded in keeping 2 naps much longer than I ever expected!  Right now I am trying to figure out what is causing dd to wake up between 6 and 6:30 every morning instead of between 6:30 and 7.  Is she just not tired enough??  Here is her schedule as of lately.

6:00/6:30- wake
7- out of crib
10/10:30- nap after 4 h wake time sleep between 1 hour and 1 h 15 m.
3:30/4- catnap in car or with me holding her.  I try to wake her after 30 minutes but sometimes she just looks so peaceful so I let her go a little longer...
7- in bed and asleep between 7:15/7:30

Thanks for the advice!

[amy123]

Hi all!  I've been gone a bit, too...  (Hi Soraya's Mom!  Nice to see you again:)  )  We were smooth-going for a short while, too, but the time change Nov. 4th and then a 5 day trip two time zones away for a wedding Nov 8-12 and then travelling to Grandma's for Thanksgiving Nov. 21-23 has shaken things up a bit.  I considered posting on the getting back on track board, but I think the underlying issue is still 2-1. 

I can't even post a current routine as things are so out of whack.  In the last few weeks, wake time has varied from 5 a.m. - 7:15 a.m.   Morning nap is usually around 9 or 9:30 and has been usually about 1 to 1 1/2 hrs but has also been at 10, 11, or even skipped .  PM nap has been either refused if a.m. nap is an hour or more, or it has taken 1/2 hour of soothing or PD to get her down for even a late afternoon catnap.  I have tried waking her early from her a.m. nap (e.g., after 30 min) and then getting a longer p.m. nap (about 90 min only though). 

Regardless, she's always been a nightwaker, usually taking 1-2 paci pops to settle between 2-3 hours after she goes to bed and then sometimes around 4 a.m.  The last three days she's become an early waker, too... 5:00 and 5:30.  Yikes - this is becoming quite a bore!

Obviously, she's in a OT rut.  But to get her out, do I set arbitrary nap times and do PD?  (The problem is I'm not even sure if she's still needing two naps or not.)  She's always had a pretty short A time in the a.m. - only about 2.75 or 3 hrs, and since she's so tired I waffle about whether to stretch that longer or not.  When she has a short or skipped a.m. nap, we do early bedtime (about 6:15 asleep) but I've hesitated to go early if she's had a 90 min. p.m. nap that lasts until 2:30 or 3 p.m.

Sorry so long.  Any ideas/help are most welcome!
Amy   

[NiknLily]

Leslie, sorry haven't been on computer over weekend.  I think what you where doing to get her some good sleep is spot on.  She needs to catch up & not be so OT, so yes for a few days do what you need to.  That night with no NW's was fantastic.  Once she catches up her naps should of improved.  Then once OT is not a problem will be the best time to look at what her routine needs to be for her at the moment.  As Lib said consistency with nap & bedtimes can be a huge help.  It certainly was for me, only when I stuck to rigid times did things start to improve and move forward in the right direction.

Katemom - sounds like things are going well for you.  A lot of mums find that at first you need to do 2/3 days on 1 nap then a day of 2 naps and so on.  So your flexibility to her fluctuations is perfect.

Jmoran - personally if the 10.30 nap time works as well as it has done, giving 1.5-2hrs sleep I would be inclined to put them to bed at 5/5.30pm for the night and not try to give a catnap, as with the 5.30 wake up even if they take a 30min catnap and you put them to bed later all you achieve is to rob them of the chance to have a full nights sleep.  JMO but I would stick with the 10.30 nap and 5/5.30 bedtime for a few days then shift their day forward until wake up is closer to 7am and bedtime 7/7.30pm.  You may well find that once ou have done this they will happily be on just 1 nap.  Even if you have to do as Katemom mentioned and give them a catnap every few days to help stop OT creeping back in.  

Hi Sorayas Mom - So pleased things have been going well for you.  She isn't getting too much day sleep so maybe there is a little OT creeping in.  Have you tried to put her down to bed 15/30Min's early at all.  I think I would start here.  If that doesn't help then maybe she is ready to have that morning A time pushed out slowly until she is just on the 1 nap.  Personally tho I would try the earlier bedtime for a few days to see what effect this has, then see from there how to go forward.

Amy - I would do whatever you need to to get her out of the OT rut, then I think as you say she has always had a short am A time I would opt for a 30min catnap in the morning and a late pm nap.  90min pm nap following a 30min am nap is really not bad at all, DD would only ever take 1-1.15hrs so for us I decided, too late that a long am nap and late catnap would of been a better approach but its different for all LO's.  For early bedtimes a general rule of thumb is to put them down by the amount of nap sleep they missed, so if you normally get 2hrs naps total and she only takes 1.5hrs put her down 30Min's early.  Really until she is no longer OT you won't be able to tell how many naps she needs.  Remember when trying a different routine you need to give it a good go, at least 3 days to see what effect it has.  It can become all too easy to try something one day which doesn't work and think you need to try something different the next day, it all becomes to much for your LO (and you) and causes even more chaos.  So give every new routine tweak time to take effect before trying something new.

[jmoran544]

new mum, thank you, again for the advice. If I put them to bed at 5:30, how do I know they won't wake for the day at 4:30, ready to go? If it does work, how many days would you suggest we put them to bed early, and only with one nap, before we try to move the day toward 7:00 bed time? And when we do shift the day, by how much, and for how long? By 15 min every three days? 30 min?

Answers always lead to more questions.

[October]

Jmoran, just wanted to say I've always banked on the v.early bedtime of 5.30pm or slightly before to avoid O/T and 2 nights ago our LO slept 5.20am till 7.10am...admittedly he woke at 5am, fell asleep, then woke just after 6am and fell asleep till 7.10am but he had a ton of sleep overall. It doesn't always work that well but 5.30pm bedtime doesn't mean a 4.30am wakeup IMHO. It may mean 6am on a good day but for me that's far preferable to any earlier, kind of my cut-off for sanity !!

We have had huge inconsistency issues and wakeups c.5am-7am and I def. see worse nights if bedtime is 7pm or later at the moment. I think we'll try to follow Lib & New Mum's advice and be consistent, setting bedtime at 6.30pm. I also aim these days for a minimum of 11hrs o'night. We had 2x1 nap days over the w/e but a wakeup of 6am and first nap at 9.50am so I'll see how long Bubba sleeps before deciding on the catnap.....

FWIW, I have a big problem getting a regular catnap. Always have, since Bubba was v.young (strong-willed my chap!). We did a drive eysterday but I live on a small island and we have to drive at slow speeds.......driving is boring and I just can't do the driving thing here. If Bubba refuses a catnap in his crib, I don't force it but do an early bedtime.

So glad I found you ladies. It's a tough time for LOs and their parents huh ? I just want to be out of the woods before No.2 comes along (Bubba came 8 weeks early so we have to be prepared...) !!

Deb x       

[amy123]

thanks newmum!  a good reminder about trying something for 3 days before changing strategies.   i also forgot to mention she's had a bit of a stuffy nose for the last 2-3 days, so I've probably been changing strategies even more than usual!

So, in getting her past OT, do you suggest letting her sleep as long as possible for the a.m. nap instead of waking after 30-60 min?  And then any suggestions for about how long A time before p.m. nap?  Today so far:

7 p.m. bedtime last night (probably too late)
5:45 a.m. wake - put hand on her back, etc until...
6:30 - out of crib
9:45 - was playing w/ big brother and doing fine.  suddenly started to crash; put down for nap immediately
has been sleeping about 1 hr 15 min hour now and will prob. be up in the next 15 (11:15 a.m.).