anyone want to chat about the 2-1 nap switch , thread#3

[simonealisa]

I'm starting to wonder if I need to shorten my DS am nap.

This is his schedule:

Wake 6:45 am
1st nap 9:00am (1.5-1 3/4 hrs)
Lunch 12:00
2nd nap 1:00pm (1 3/4-2hrs)
Dinner 5:00 pm
Bath & wind down 6:00pm
Bedtime 6:30pm

My DS has always been a frequent night waker but we've started doing pu/pd to get him to sleep through the night. He has been on EASY since the beginning and his naps are PERFECT and he goes down easily on his own with no problems most of the time, just night time that is bad. He sometimes wakes up to 4-5 times at night (although its improved since we started sleep training, he even finally slept through the night 2 days ago which is a huge accomplishment for him). He is majorily teething right now, so I'm a bit nervous to start adjusting his schedule right now but after reading everyone else's posts I think I'm realizing that he might not be tired enough at night. When he wakes up at around 5 am he seems really quite alert although he will go back down to sleep pretty easily. I think it's time to shorten the AM nap. How should IO do that? Do I cut time off from the front of the nap or the end of the nap? Do I need to adjust the PM nap start time then as well? Thanks.

[skatty]

Morning everyone 

First can I say a big thanks to Newmum for coming on and avising us as it is great to have someone who has been through this recently supporting us 

We had a crazy day yesterday after L's early wake  Nap 1 lasted 40 mins and nap 2 started while we were out walking and she kept sceaming in her sleep as she is teething her molars, after 50 mins she suddenly screamed and was thrashing around (I was actually scared!) so I took her out and bought her in and she fell asleep in my arms for another 40 mins! She hasn't done that for months. When she finally woke after another half an hour she seemed ok but was dribbley and biting on her dummy and she went to bed at 6pm after just 2½ hours A time and rolled over and went straight to sleep and STTN  She woke this morning at 6am chatted for 20 mins and then fell asleep until 7.20 am  She has NEVER slept this late! I'm sure she is just extra tired rom teething but I am aiming to put her down just before 12 and if she takes a decent nap it will be another one nap day for us 

Simonealisa, I think you generally cut the AM nap to 1 hour and then put them for the second nap 3-3.5 hrs later but I see your LO has a shorter A time than that so maybe oit would be after 2hrs but best get some advice off someone else as my DD has never had average A times, some were longer and some shorter.

Amy, the walk in the pushchair is a good idea for conserving some energy but I have to do my walk earlier as DD will fall asleep on transit!

Laura Rose, your routine sounds fabulous! We have never had a routine like that 

Edjo my DD had those middle of the night awake playing when she has new milestones but be careful as they can get LO OT but unfortunately there is not much you can do about it if they decide to play on their own without needing you. Definitely give DD some cot time, you need your coffee break 

Sorayas mom, your routine is similar to ours or what I usually strive for, a long AM nap and the a short PM nap though Leorah uaually needs 4 hrs A time after her AM nap so we cut the catnap at 20 mins, just enough for dinner and the bedtime routine.

I hope we all get good naps and nights today 

[NiknLily]

Hi Simonalisa.  I would be inclined to leave the naps as they are for now and instead try to lengthen his A times.  He is on quite a short day, 11.75hrs so I would say there is scope to add 3/5hr into his A times through the day, you may find that this will shorten his naps naturally, not sure how it works but DD naps got shorter as her A got longer.  I think I would try this before messing with a seriously good napper 

[NiknLily]

Skatty 

[LauraRose]

Simonealisa--Your LO is so sweet! Love that smile.  I think the first step for you would be just shifting the am nap later by little increments (right, newmum?).  We recently did this with DS and it has worked out pretty well. 

Skatty--remember, that's my dream schedule =)
Here's what yesterday really looked like (not bad, but *yawn* I'd love to sleep in a little later)
6:30 wake
10 nap (1 hr 40 min!)
2:30 nap (50 min)
6:15 bed
--no NW!
5:45 wake (this morning)

BTW, DD has a bad cough, so I've been up with her in the night.  Not really complaining about DS's schedule.

[skatty]

So Leorah is asleep at 4hrs 35 min A time, wakes after 50 mins so I decide to leave her as she was just doing animal noises. She babbles away for 30 mins, lies quietly for another 15 and then falls asleep again for 45 minutes, has anyone else had this? She woke at 2pm and fell asleep as soon as her head hit the mattress at 6pm. I don't think she is OT as she has been having over 12 hours a night and slept in this morning and also she shows OT with 30 min naps. I am hoping she will sleep in until 6.30/7am tomorrow as we are going to a playgroup in the morning and I want her to get home and eat lunch before her nap, it's going to be tight! I have noticed that L can handle more A time in the AM than the PM, most LO's are the other way around aren't they?

Good sleep vibes to all 

[lib]

Hello everyone
I just want to say how great it is to read all your posts - it has really helped me with my DD - as she is going thro the 2-1 transition.  It has been so difficult to know what to do, as she is also teething (like them all!!)  - perhaps someone can answer some of these very stupid questions!

She is going to be 12 months tomorrow, and for the last 2 months been fighting naps, doing v short naps, NW, EW - you name it.  She also is so active and will keep going - I never get tired signs until she is in her cot and rubs her eyes, just before shut eye. So I find it difficult to know when to put her down for her naps.   It now seems that she needs a nap just 2 hrs 45 mins after wake up in the am (and will sleep for 1 - 1.15 hrs) - is this normal?  If she goes down any later she only naps for 30 mins, so does this mean she is OT??? 

What is a normal total of nap time for a 12 month old?  Lily varies between 1.5 hrs and 2.15 hrs.  It does sound like this is what most of you guys are getting from yours......

I am worried about the time change coming up this weekend.... at the mo Lily goes to bed between 6.15 and 6.45, depending on nap time but generally always wakes up around 6am ( I have put her to bed later on a couple of occasions but still wakes up then) - so how can i get her to sleep later?  Anyone with handy hints on time changes??

Anyway - here is the schedule for the day for dissection:
6am wake
6.30 BF
7.30 B/fast
8.45 nap
9.45  - 10.00 wake (on a good day)
12.30 lunch
1.30 nap
2.30 wake
5.00 dinner
6.30 bottle/BF
6.45 bed (falls asleep instantly, but recently had NW's at 10pm ish, then 4.30 am - don't know why!!!!!)

Thanks!
Lib

[NiknLily]

Hi Lib.

I would say that if she sleeps well after 2hrs 45 then thats her perfect A time.  Its pretty natural that her morning nap is longer than pm one and this serves well when you finally drop to 1 nap as the am nap is the one you'll want to keep and push forward to lunch time.  Her routine looks great, could the odd NW's of been caused by teething? or did they fall on a day when her total nap time came up a little short?

Cant remember what average naps for 12month old are, most of other ladies on here have LO's around that age so I'm sure they'll know.

Regarding time change the following is how I moved DD day from 5/6am - 5/5.30pm to 7am-7pm.  Each day you move their whole day on by 10Min's.  This does mean that the first A time extends by 10Min's initially but this should work itself out.  So move first bottle/bf on by 10Min's and breakfast and any normal snack times then put down for nap 10Min's later.  Then move lunch, 2nd nap, dinner & bedtime on by 10Min's.  So in effect the day will be 10Min's longer than normal.  Next day (or for younger LO's you may want to do this every 2 or 3 days) do the same and keep repeating until bedtime has moved back up to where you want it and wake ups will have moved up with it.  I did 10Min's every day and it took just over a week to shift her whole day forward but DD was several months older than all your LO's so you may need to do it slower.

Simonealisa--Your LO is so sweet! Love that smile.  I think the first step for you would be just shifting the am nap later by little increments (right, newmum?).  We recently did this with DS and it has worked out pretty well. 

Thats my thinking too 

[lib]

thanks new mum - you give me hope I am doing things OK!  She has been teething recently, one popped thro last week, and I keep thinking another one is looming, but nothing seems to appear so now I am not so sure.  She is also walking (or tottering) on her own for a few steps so maybe this is having an effect?

BTW I put her to bed at 5.30 today, as she was at nursery and only slept for 40 mins all day!!!!!!!  Argghhhh - I hope she sleeps well - dead to the world so far....    Well if she does then I will try your 10 min thing tomorrow - many thanks for that.

[LauraRose]

lib,  Just commiserating with you.  This is a lot of guess-work, huh?  Hope your night goes well.

[LauraRose]

Recent schedules for DS:
The naps are definitely improved, and he's much happier during the day. But, yikes...the dark, starlit mornings!
Wed--
5:45 wake
9:45 nap (1 hr. 40 min.)
2:00 nap (1 hr. 30 min.)
6:30 bedtime--fell asleep around 7

Thurs--
5:15 wake (PU/PD once, stayed happy in crib until 5:45)
9:15 nap (1 hr. 15 min.)
1:45 nap

[amy123]

Hi all -

Laura - the stroller wind down idea was an excellent reminder.  I put it back in the repetoire today and had good results at bedtime.

Jo - I certainly see no problem with letting LO have rest time in the crib.  My 3 y.o. still has "quiet time" in his room/bed since he doesn't nap anymore.  You're laying a good foundation for that down the line.  And that Y time is so worth it.

Lib - Happy Birthday to Lily! 

newmum- I'm glad you had mentioned the hour fifteen naps being a sign of OT b/c we got one today.      Here's today...

6:45 - wake (almost on the nose every day)
7 a.m. - bf
8 a.m. breakfast
10:15 - tried for nap.  no go.  (then had to pick big brother up from school and didn't get home until 11:15)
11:30 - early lunch
12:00 - nap
1:15 - woke up - tried to do PD a couple times (at night, just one PD is all she needs to go back to sleep).  no go.
1:45 - tried to put back down for nap b/c she seemed so grumpy and fussy.  did routine of book/lullaby/bed.  no go.
4:00 p.m. - tried to put down for cat nap.  nope.
5:15 - dinner
6 p.m. - bath and bf
6:30 - asleep  (usually asleep at 7:15 most nights)

She was initially refusing the p.m. nap. but as I started pushing the a.m. nap back (from about 2.75 to 3 or 3.5), she's now had two days of skipping the a.m. nap.  Yesterday it was okay b/c she slept from 12:15 - 2:15.  Glorious!!  But today, a total nap time of 1.15 and a pretty overtired, grumpy little girl.  What to do on days like this?  Do I need to push harder to get her back to sleep or to take a later p.m. catnap (e.g., PU/PD) or just ride it out and do early bedtime or any other ideas? 

Also... I wonder if I'm rushing in too soon both when putting her down and when she wakes and is still tired?  I let her fuss for a while until it escalates (can tell she's getting frustrated) but don't wait for all out crying.  What do you all do?  My dd stands in her crib right by the door and does a boo-hoo sounding "ah HOOOO!" and even bangs on the crib.  She's not one to lie there and babble or play on her own. 

Thanks all,
Amy           

[NiknLily]

Hi Amy.  I hate those days, we still get them and in my experience there is no getting them back to sleep after OT nap.  I've tried for up to 1hr before with the only outcome being DD getting very upset.  If trying for a late catnap after an OT nap, bear in mind that they are already OT so the catnap may need to be earlier than you expect, although just 45Min's later was unlikely to work, but you never know unless you try, right? If you repeatedly try the late catnap to no avail, then i would say you will have to do super early bedtimes on those days.  If she has 1.15hrs day sleep you can probably offer bedtime up to 1hr earlier than normal to let her have chance to catch up on that lost 1hr of daytime sleep.

I would say the OT nap may be because she went over 5hrs before nap, at her age I would advise A time of 4.5-5hrs max.

I don't wait for all out crying either when DD wakes too soon, I can usually tell if she will go back to sleep or not, or whether she just needs a PD to go back to sleep.  I sometimes worry I go in too soon and maybe I do, but then its how I've always been so its what DD expects.

[LauraRose]

Same with me for waking early in the morning and from naps.  Sometimes I can get another 15-30 min after PD, but usually it's all over once he's awake.

BTW, 5:20 wake up for ds this morning...

[NiknLily]

LauraRose - if you feel his routine has stabilised a little, you can shift that early day in the same way you shift day for time change.  I described it above in a response to Lib.  Also if hes waking at 5.15 then I would say bedtime should be no later than 5.45pm leaving time for an 11-11.5hr night.  It could be why his mornings are getting earlier.  DD day shifted down to a wake up anytime after 5am when transitioning and I found it impossible to give her an early bedtime as bedtime was already so early.  By shifting day later it made things so much easier and I could then offer a bedtime as early as 6pm (1hr before normal).