anyone want to chat about the 2-1 nap switch , thread#3

[lesorl]

Amy123- I definitely meant shopping tips.  We're striking out in the sleep dept too!

I know I still have an OT one, but how the heck do I work out A times?  Do I set a schedule and stick with it a few days?

Today was another bust:

6:36am Awake
S 10:52am-11:28am (OT, but she wouldn't go down earlier)
S 2:04pm-3:04pm (again OT)
Bedtime 6pm

Do I aim for 3.5 hours A time for the 1st nap?  I just can't seem to get 2 good naps (or most days, 1 good nap!)

Leslie

[2Pam]

Hi, ( I posted this on the normal nap thread, but Leslie thought I would get some good advice here) Thanks Leslie.

Well, where to begin.  About a month and a half ago, my son started to extend his A time big time and his first nap was going longer and longer.  So, I began to shorten the pm nap and eventually got rid of it.  My lo then over many ups and downs and overtiredness, started to have one nap only which lasted between 2-3hrs.  But, he was a big grump for a month and eventually his nap got shorter and shorter and he started to wake in the morning earlier.  So, I decided, after reading many a threads to shorten his am nap and keep the pm nap.  Am nap lasted 1hr. had to wake and the pm nap lasted 2hrs. went to bed pretty good and then woke 12hrs. later.  This worked great for about two or three weeks. . . until. . .   My lo is now 11 months. He is starting to not want to go down for his pm nap, sometimes ends early, and yesterday it only lasted 45minutes!  He woke up happy and went to sleep great.  So, this morning, I shortened his am nap to 45 minutes and now his is currently refusing his pm nap.  I give you my routine:

wake: 7:15-7:30ish
Nap: 1 10:30pm (3hrs. after he wakes up)  He can stay up to 4hrs. 15min but if I put him down right at 3hrs. he goes down great.  Have been waking him at 1hr. woke today at 45 minutes.

Nap 2: 3rhs. after he wakes up, today 2:00pm,

Bedtime &:30pm

Questions:  Do I continue to shorten the am nap even more?
                Do I change the A time???

                 Do I go back to pushing him to stay awake and make the am nap his only nap?

Leslie: I have to read back a little to figure out what you have been doing.  After are one nap was going so great and then went out the window we went back to two naps which did work.  Would you lo go down at 3hrs. after she woke up.  For some reason that works for Eric, but it has to be right at 3hrs. no later.  It is hard to give advice when I thought I had it and then it all went out the window.
                 
 

[amy123]

It is hard to give advice when I thought I had it and then it all went out the window.

2Pam - I, for one, was an absolutely perfect parent...  before I had children.     They keep us humble, don't they?
Do you have any sense whether he's refusing the p.m. nap because he's OT after just 45 min/1 hr in the a.m. or because he perhaps needs 15 minutes longer A time before the p.m. nap?  That's the million dollar question, right?  When you do decide he's ready for one nap, what about going ahead with the a.m. nap since that's his preference, but slowly pushing it back by 10-15 minutes every couple of days until it's closer to 12:30 or 1, and using an early bedtime to ward off OT?

Deb - good point on cutting A time after a super-short a.m. nap.  maybe that's why dd is only giving me 40 minute naps in the p.m.... she could be way OT.  What time was Noah waking up in the a.m. when you were on that routine?  And was he waking on his own after 30 minutes or were you waking him?

Lauren - yep, Ava's 13 m.o. - a week from 14 months.  Instinctively, I know it's true that their A time would need to be longer in the a.m. after a good nights sleep.  It just makes it hard to stick to any semblance of a routine.   So, if she sleeps well at night, then she usually has a 1 (short) nap day then sleeps poorly the next night followed by a couple 2 (short) nap days until she gets so extremely OT that she finally has a good night's sleep.  Repeat.  Did someone say this process lasts MONTHS?  ugh... 

jmoran - I've heard that as they switch from 2 naps to 1,  their daytime sleep will decrease a bit and they'll make up for it at night.  So, instead of 11.5 hrs at night at 2 during the day, they might do 12 at night and 1.5 during the day.  All averages, of course.  Does dd seem tired?  Or are you just going on past performance?

Leslie - I'm in exactly the same boat!!  Can't ever get two good naps and most days (lately) not even one good one.   

Last night dd took 20 minutes to get to sleep (fussing) then was doing plenty of random shouting all night.  Asleep at 6:40 p.m.  Had to go in to help re-settle her at 8:15, 2:30, 2:45, 5:00, 5:15, and then I think she was awake (bumping into crib rails and/or kicking them) from 6-6:20 a.m. then back to sleep until 6:50.  So, this is 12 hours, but not "good" sleep necessarily.  With the set schedule, she'd be due to go down after 3.5 hrs, at 10:15 a.m.  She was yawning at 9, though (after just 2 hrs 10 min), zoning out in the car while running errands, and yawning again at 9:30.  (Isn't 2.5 hrs A time too short to put her down?)  When I tried to put her down at 10:10, though, she wouldn't go!  The short(er) story is, she got one 40 minute nap all day today, from 11:35-12:15.  Wouldn't go down for the sitter in the late afternoon.

Aleesa - well, at least we know where the late-nite party is... in Lil's crib!!  What's she doing from 2:30-4:30?  Are you having flashbacks from the newborn phase?  Anyway, I certainly wouldn't have woken her either.  Maybe this will be all it takes to change her wake time to 6:30 instead of 5:30.  (Wishful thoughts for that coming your way.)

Sorry for the long posts...  dh is working late recently 

[Aly Mac]

Hi all and hugs to everyone!!


I know it's important to keep to the same nap times etc, but it is so hard when she has nw.  this morning just 3.30-4, and she woke at 6.45, so we are on a one nap day to see how it goes.. 

Amy, in the nw, I have resorted to AP - bf.. - I know it's wrong, but when she is that upset, I figure whatever works.  We tried the night before with DH, but that took forever and just 30mins with me.    I do try to calm first but don't want to confuse her.  Basically I think it takes about 20mins for the panadol to kick in.  I'm convinced it's the bottom molars - that are trying to poke through but not yet, so I guess I'll have a few more days of this yet. 

Any advice on what to do in general guys?  I know it's not really a 2-1 switch issue. I'm really just winging it here with the A times - due to the nw, it's hard to know how long she'll stay awake for.  About the only standard I am working to, is no more than 2.5 hrs of naps a day otherwise sleeping really goes to pot. Plus I think I'm getting sick..... ughh!!!

sorry about the rambling post...

[2Pam]

Amy: he doesn't seem OT, when I put him to down for the pm nap, he cried a little but then talked to himself for an hour!  he then fell asleep and had a 2hr. nap, which is now messing with his bedtime.  He is talking in his crib now. . .30min after his bedtime.  The other day when his am nap was an hour, I put him down for the pm, and it was a 45 minute and he woke happy. . . I have thought of doing the extending the am nap again but I am leary of the ot thing again.  He never would go to bed early. 
I have read that a few of you have set nap times.  Does that mean set times not A times?  I somewhat have set times but it varies a little with when he wakes up.

AlyMac: did you use to post of the 45minute nap thread??  How old is your lo?  The A times for my lo can be up to 4hrs. 15min, but since I went to two naps they were a nap every 3hrs.

oh, my dh is here, we are playing scrabble on facebook.
Pam

[debo620]

Amy,
Noah was waking early and happy anywhere from 5am-6am, this is why I cut the am nap.
Once we started the 30min am nap, his night stabilized with him sleeping 7pm-6am.
so yes I was waking him at 30min..

but if he woke at 5:30--lets say, he still napped at 9:30 and I still woke him 30min later. next in crib for 12:30, definately your daughter is OT after that much A time.
try no more then 2.5hrs and see what happens.
try to keep your am nap around the same time--within 15min and this will help establish the pm nap.
don't forget the point of cutting the am nap is to have her sleeping more in the middle of the day and as the am nap is cut further she will nap around noon. KWIM?
when Noah is awake at night now, he does sleep past his normal wake time but then has less A time and naps at a normal time. probably what happened to you today.

HTH

[Aly Mac]

Yep Pam, I was there on the 45min thread too, a while ago 

Well today she had a whole one hour nap  from 12-1...I left it too late due to unforseen circumstances (read, my nieces concert went an hour over time...what can you do...)

she's in bed now, 5.30pm....

will make sure she has 2 naps tomorrow - please pray for no NW or EW!!!!!

[lindaloulou]

Question about keeping their naptime consistant when you are switching to one nap:

If they sleep later one day can you make the naptime a bit later? Or, just pick a set time, stick to it, until you have some good night sleep then push the naptime back every few days???

Nad, how long does it take to get over OT...will 2 good nights do it?

Linda

Lauren- How is everthing going?

jmoran-How are you doing with the set naptime and bedtime? do you adjust it when the kiddos wake a different time, or just keep them on that rigid schedule? I am not sure if adjusting Ana's naptime by 15 minutes or so depending on her waketime will screw her up, or if it is OK. The past 2 days I have "set" it at 10:45, but am wondering if 10:30 is ok for early waking days and 11:00 for days she sleeps later in the AM?

Thoughts anyone?

 

[NiknLily]

If Lily had a good nights sleep (no nw) and slept later I would put her down later for nap too and take advantage of this natural push in right direction, if she had a bad night and slept slightly longer in am because of it I would put her down at set time to be sure she didn't get OT for nap.  I had to be careful not to put Lily down too soon for a nap because if not tired she would play right past the time she should of gone to sleep and end up struggling to get to sleep because then OT and nap really poorly

[lindaloulou]

new mum-

Makes sense. We are only 2 days into the 1 nap transition. We had 1 hour naps both days, then bedtime at 6:15. She slept really well last night and woke about 6:40. I was thinking of putting her down at 11, about 15 minutes later than yesterday (woke at 6AM yesterday). Do you think it is too soon in the transition to have variable nap times?

So my LO just woke after a 30 minute nap...I put her down at 11 and she went down at 11:15 up at 11:45. CRAP!!! I thought she would be OK after sleeping well last night. So with just a 30 minute nap should I put her down for a 2nd nap? Why oh why is this so hard!!!!

Linda

[laurencopenhaver]

Things are about the same here.  He's still waking around 4:30 then again by 5:30 and now never sleeping past 5:30.  I don't know how it's ever going to even out b/c he has to go bed soo early from getting up so early.  And going to bed earlier has never made him sleep later, just caused him to wake earlier, just a little happier.  And sometimes not even the case.  Either he's getting his eye teeth right after his molars just came in, or he's really ot, cause most days he's soooo grumpy, clingy and whiny.  He just fell asleep now at 10:50 like yesterday.  He's back to not crying when I lay him down and is usually out w/in 10 min., but still is only sleeping an hour.  Gosh it's been a good month now since one nap and aren't getting any longer.  Is it just a lot of ot?

[jmoran544]

Amy 123 and Linda- Dd is more whiney than usual, and is crying for things that didn't bother her in the past. She had 1.5 hr nap for two days, and 11 hr nights. I'm thinking the nap length is what's making her grumpy. I decided to stop ready emails to find a better way to twek things. I'm going to set their nap and bedtimes for a week, in the hopes that nighttime may lengthen to 11.5 hrs, and naps remain at least steady. I'm more concerned about ds for naps- for the last three days he's woken up at the 40 min mark crying, but settles after about 5 min. I just hope his crying doesn't start extending, thereby shortening his naps. But whatever happens, I'm going to stick to the schedule. Although I will say that ds's attitude has improved 100% since I made them drop their 2nd nap- his tantrums have stopped almost altogether, at any time of day. He falls asleep for both nap and bed within 10 min. Dd is the one now who seems to need some time to catch up. It has taken her more than 20-30 min to all asleep at night- she used to do the same as her brother- and one of her naps were 2 hrs+.

When I feel that the kiddos have set their schedule, I plan to shift the day 10 min, as new mum suggested, until we get to a 7/7:30 bedtime with a 6:30/7am wake up. (I'm not sure which time I want bedtime to be yet, because I don't want them to get overtired again)

Here's our routine so far- it seems to be what we need to do right now, regardless of wake time in the am or after naps. Changing sleep times here and there for the twins to adjust for appropriate A times wasn't working (they would wake up as long as a half-hour after each other in the am, and up to 1 hr for naps), and was driving me insane.

wake: 5:15-5:45
nap 11:00 (wind down starts at 9:30 with walk outside in stroller, 10:00 with snack, pants change, 10:40 with books in their room, then in crib/ bassinet in separate rooms at 10:50)
bedtime 6:00 (wind down starts with dinner at about 4:30, baths at 5:00, 5:30 books, 5:40 milk, 5:50 in bed)

I set nap and bedtimes 7 hrs apart, to eventually allow for a 2 hr nap, then 5 hrs A time after nap.

[lindaloulou]

Lauren,

Wish I could help. We are only 2 days into the nap transition. For us the ultra early bedtime did'nt work. When I put her to bed at 5:30-6:00 she would stay up until 7PM. The last couple night have been better with her down at 6:15 and falling asleep shortly thereafter.

As for the your days...I have found teething is worse when they are OT. I know what you me an about the 1 hour naps...Ana'shave only been 1 hour since we made the switch.

L

[2Pam]

Hi,
It is hard to figure out what everyone is doing. . . .Is anyone shortening the am nap and keeping the pm nap?  I have shortened it the am to 45min from hour, but not sure if that was right or not.  he didn't go to sleep until an hour after I put him down.  Do I shorten it to 30min??  Is anyone doing that?  I am so confused.  
Amy: I was reading your post where your lo started to refuse the pm nap.  My friends with older kids told me that is a sure sign that they need to go down to one nap.  Is shortening the am nap working for you??
Laura, my little guys schedule looks similar to yours but he goes to bed at 7:30pm, and has been having a longer pm nap until recently.  Does he go down pretty good for his pm nap? Do you wake him for his am nap?

New mum: should I keep trying to maintain the two naps.  My lo is only just 11 months.
Thanks,
Pam

[laurencopenhaver]

Pam-I would keep the 2 naps for as long as possible.  Mine is almost 17 months and he still can hardly handle 4.5-5 hrs.

Kyler went down at 10:55 and as I figured, was ot b/c he only slept for 35 min and woke crying.  I tried for a few min. to get him back to sleep but just cried.  And I even tried for a nap 3 hours later but refused.  Nothing is getting better, I don't know what to do.  This sucks!  I feel helpless.  My friends baby, another one who has never heard of bw, is 10 months old and decided he was going to take a 2.5 hour one nap a day just all of a sudden one day.  This is not fair.  Is all my child does is whine and cry all day long and still doesn't sleep.