anyone want to chat about the 2-1 nap switch , thread#3

[skatty]

Laura Rose, no we don't stick to an exact shedule, naps and bed depend on wake up time, activity and how tired she appears to be. As for the winddown I think babies are just like us sometimes its easier to get to sleep than others. I do know if Leorah has had a busy afternoon we start the windown earlier as she needs more time to relax than if she has had a calm afternoon, saying that we try to make all afternoons calm as she is spirited and this suits her more.

I have a question, do you all count morning A time from the moment you hear your LO wake or from the time you turn the light on? I heard L at 6.30 am this morning but it was 7am she started calling and we went and switched the lights on, she played for about 10 mins and then we went to get her.

[NiknLily]

I count morning A time from time she wakes up, usually, not when I actually get her up.  Some people count half the time as A time, so if awake for 30mins before getting up they consider wake up to be 15mins before getting up.

Likewise Skatty regards exact timings of schedule.  For a while during transition I found the only way to break bad nap cycle and serious OT was to have fixed by the clock times.  This helped reset Lilys bodyclock because it was all over the place, nothing was consistant, so there was little suprise that things where spiralling out of control.  Now things have settled down it A before nap can vary by 30-40mins and bedtime by 1hr.

Our windown is always same length of time, but if she is a bit too charged up I just give extra cuddles before taking to her room.

[LauraRose]

Thanks, Skatty and newmum
I am asking mainly because it seems like Jack is really sensitive to OT.  If I count A time from his wake up (this am it was 5:20)--it would be 4-5 hours depending.  I've been putting him down for am nap at 9:30 lately--so that's about 4.5 hrs. This is by far his longest awake time of the day and his morning naps have not been very long the last few days. I'm wondering if he's OT again.

Yesterday's schedule--
5 wake
5:40 got him up/BF
7:20 breakfast
9:30 nap (50 min.)
11:00 snack
12:30 lunch
1:30 nap (1 hr. 10 min.) He woke really upset and wouldn't calm down until I nursed him.
5:15 dinner
6:20 bed

My mom has been suggesting that he might sleep longer once I wean him completely (usually it's just wake up and bedtime). Have you heard of that? I am putting off trying to shift his schedule because I'm worried about OT.  Thanks again, so much, for your input.

[skatty]

Hi Laura Rose, I don't see how weaning Jack would make him nap longer, I know some people have a problem with night feeds but even then I wouldnt stop breastfeeding because of it unless you want to stop...?

Newmum, I think the half time idea is great and i think I will try counting like that as when she wakes she just lies there and sometimes talks and sometimes not, she makes it known when she is ready to get up!

I am a bit confused at the moment. I am dreading OT and seem to be doing ok as before now L would show OT straight away but I am worried about it sneaking up. We are having 1 nap and 2 nap days depending on what time L wakes from her nap, if it's after 1pm then it's just early to bed. Anyway today she had 5hrs 5 mins A time as things ran a bit late and she slept 1½ hours which is really good for her, basically I am happy if she does an hour. She slept over 12½ hours last night as well but was quite miserable this afternoon and clingy. This is classic teething behaviour with her but she has been constantly teething for weeks now and has some bits of molars coming through so why today? I am dreading tonight as I am wondering if she is OT and will be waking up, she was asleep by 5.45pm and turned straight over and went to sleep. Are there any signs I should be looking out for? Normally she has immediate NWs, EWs and 30 min naps but we have had none of these but I am still expecting it to creep up because it always has before now 

I hope you all have good naps, great nights and late wakings 

[NiknLily]

LauraRoes
I would say possibly OT is creeping in again with the short naps.  I would be inclined to have him in bed by 5.30pm if he woke at 5am giving a 12.5hr day and even if he takes 30Min's to go to sleep at bedtime he still has at least 11hrs night sleep.  Also would he of gone down at 9am instead of 9.30, it may be 4.5hrs actually awake was just too long for him.

I hate to say it but I think the idea that a weaned baby sleeps better is an old wives tale, unless your using bf to get a baby/toddler to sleep then there is no reason why stopping bf will help them sleep.

Skatty, Molars are a nightmare I think they keep on causing grief until the whole top of the tooth has cut through.  Lily pretty much got all four in succession, top 2 came through together, just 1 slightly before the other and the bottom ones followed right after in the same way.  Is she cutting them all or just top ones, if just top maybe the bottom are getting ready to spring up.

Haven't heard of any other clues to OT, other than NW EW and short naps.  Don't forget the OT nap is generally 1hr15Min's if your on a 1nap day and as she slept for 1.5hrs I'd say she wasn't OT before nap so is unlikely to be after nap.

[lesorl]

Can I ask for some more help (please)

Yesterday was early to bed, 5:25pm, and slept until 6:47am with no NWs.  YAY!  But naps today were not great...

6:47am Awake
S 10:02am-10:52am
S 2:26pm-3:24pm
Bedtime at 6:30pm

What do you make of these naps?  Do I need to shorten the am nap in order to get a decent pm nap?  Or do I need to push the 1st nap later and give a catnap before bed (this is where I got into OT trouble a few weeks ago, which it seems we're still trying to catch up on).  Or do these naps mean she's OT?

THanks for any help,
Leslie

[skatty]

Hi Leslie, I am not sure what to suggest because when on 2 naps 2 x 50 min naps were quite good in this house, beat 2x 37 min naps. I would have recommended pushing the AM nap and then catnap but not if it lead to OT before, maybe you could just increase the PM A time by 10 mins? Wait until someone more experienced comes first! New Mum...lol!!

Well Leorah is surprising the hell out of me, she was asleep by 5.45pm last night and only now am I hearing her stir at 7.15am  I was going to give her 2 naps today to avoid OT but now there wont be time unless I put her to bed late. Dare I hope that all the early to bed training has taught her to tag on any tiredness to her nights???

New Mum, I know in general 1hr15 min naps are caused by OT but with L I don't think this is the case. She has always napped less than average and 1hr15 is quite good for her. When she is OT she has very jerky naps and always wakes at 30 mins even if I can get her back to sleep. Yesterday makes me think she needs a longer A time (nearer to 5 hours) to have a longer nap but I do worry about pushing it. We have playgroup today which always makes her tired so I will watch her closely.

New Mum, Leorah has about a quarter of each top molar through and the canines and bottom molars are very bumpy. I know when she gets pain suddenly because her face gets red, her knuckles turn white and she shrieks and holds her hands over her ears! We have had her ears checked so much recently but they are fine, it's also casuing a really annoying cough when napping and sleeping which I think is the saliva she's not swallowing trickling down her throat 

Its 7.20 and she has just called for me, see you 

[NiknLily]

Leslie, it is possible she is still OT I'd say 2/3 good nap & night days in a row should break OT fully, so I would go with current schedule a few days to see how she does.  If you get better nights and less EW, but naps remain short, try extending 2nd A time a little.  After a 30min morning catnap most LO's can go 3-3.5hrs A time before next nap.  Your LO did a 50min nap and had 3.5hrs A time so maybe on that length nap she just needs more A time.  I still wouldn't trim back either nap until they start to mess with bedtime.  I would say that you might need to go down the route of cutting morning nap and having long nap in pm when finally transitioning so as to avoid OT, if doing other way caused OT.

Skatty, I think you are doing fantastically well  I wouldn't push that A time up until she does it herself.  Most LO's take time to adjust to 1 nap and the longer 2-2.5hr naps come with time, apparently  Still haven't seen any in this house but Lily takes months to get over dropping a nap, always has done.

If her canines are bumpy too then you really do have trouble, they are supposed to be the worse ones to cut, so if she is getting molars & canines together, oh boy  she must be hurting.  Lily always gets a cough when teething and generally a snotty nose too as well as the lovely burny bottoms

for Leorah

[lesorl]

new mum-

you're a genius... she's still OT.  32 min nap this morning, and an hour nap this afternoon, both of which she woke from crying.  So early to bed again.

I think I'm assuming as soon as she has one short-ish nap, I should increase her A time, but I think I need to give it a few days with set A times before jumping the gun.

Skatty- thanks for your responses.  It helps to know someone is listening 

Good naps for all,
Leslie

[LauraRose]

  . I think Jack is OT again. Short naps, waking unhappy.  We're working on it.

[lib]

Hi everyone

It's been about a week since my last post - as I went to stay with my folks, with Lily, cos we have the builders in (argghhhhhh).  Well what a week - what with the time change and she got another tooth (canine) - so her sleeping has been all over the show and I am yet to try the 10 min time change thing that NewMum suggested.  We have been having days of sleeping alot during the day, not at all, waking up at 3.30 am, 4.30 am, 6.30am - it has been varying so much I am at my wits end!!!!  I try and keep a routine but I can't work out what's going on!

Tues (she had 2 x 1 hr naps that day) she went to bed at 6.15, woke up at 5.45
Wed (she had 1.15 hr nap) she went to bed at 5.30 woke up at 6.40
Thurs (she had 2 x 1.15 hrs naps) she went to bed at 6.30 woke up at 3.10 - and then proceeded to scream and moan for 2 hours!!!!!  I gave med in the end as she just wouldn't settle and then did some AP - put her on the boob at 5.15am and we slept till 6.30am.  She went down for her nap at 9am - muttered till 9.15 and is still asleep (it's almost 10am).  Now I am not sure how long to let her sleep for....... should I get her up after an hour, so she has a good pm nap, and then (even if she does 2 good naps) put her down early tonight as she had a bad night last night???

I really can't work out why she had such a bad night, as yesterday she slept well in the day, ate well, etc.  Teeth??? She has all her front ones, with the last appearing Monday - is it possible to get molars so soon after that?  Any suggestions anyone??

Hope you understand this ramble - I am feeling rather sleep deprived and fed up - so my thoughts aren't perhaps being as clear as they should be.

Lib

[skatty]

Afternoon everyone 

Lib, poor you and Lily, sounds like it's been a long week. When Leorah is overtired I always plan on letting her sleep whenever and for however long she wants BUT she always short naps when OT so only very early bedtimes fix the problem for us. As for the teething I think anything goes. Leorah has two molars coming through, the bottom ones are swollen as are her incisors and she is still missing two front teeth. We have always had very disturbed sleep when teeth have been coming through except with these molars, they seem to be making her more tired, I am not complaining though!! It does sound like Lily's teeth are bothering her, did she settle after getting meds, if so then you know for sure 

Thanks for the vote of confidence New Mum, I think the reason things haven't gone to pot here yet are because Leorah has always been a terrible napper and I have spent most of her life very stressed with naps. I am sure if she had been taking 2 x 1½ hour naps a day things would be different but she is taking the same if not slightly more sleep in the day with one nap and is sleeping longer at night. I can't wait until we are properly through this switch because I have been a slave to her naps for a year and she has spent most of her life until recently OT  Leslie as you know I have been where you are now and I hope that when you are finally ready to transition you will have a similar situation to me as you have never had regular naps either.

Laura Rose, if Jack is waking very early have you tried putting him to bed VERY early? I have put L to bed as early as 4.30pm on a few occassions and it has really helped combat OT. She is not OT at the mo' and yet she is till in bed no later than 6pm every day while going through this switch even when she wakes at 7.30am as I find the evening A time is the one that gets her OT if I am not careful and her longest nap is only ever 1hr 30 and that is not everyday.

Well the weekend is here again, I do hope you all have a good one and it is stress free with long naps 

[LauraRose]

Skatty--
You are absolutely right. I need to buckle down and get him into bed super early.  I keep intending the move the bedtime earlier, but the day gets away with me! I do feel like a slave to the naps and the bedtime.

But, at this point I feel like I am ready to abandon any other thing in my life if I could only get this boy to sleep past 5 am!!!

Yesterday--
5 am wake
5:20 up
9:30 nap (1 hr.)
1:30 nap (30 min--woke with foot caught and wouldn't go back to sleep)
6 pm bedtime
3:45 NW
Today--(Friday)
4:45 awake, talking until 5:15
5:15 up (BTW, these early mornings get DD up too, thank goodness she will make up the sleep in marathon naps)

Our time change happens this Sunday and DH is out of town for the weekend, and I'm hosting  friends at our home tonight and on Sunday night (DH will be home by then), and my house is, let's just say, not company-ready. Can I just opt out of this weekend?

[LauraRose]

It's 6:45 am and Jack is sleeping--I put him down, despite his protests, at 6:30.  Was this a terrible idea, or brilliant? I figured, he's so tired--maybe I can push the whole schedule back by tacking on an extra hour early in the morning? Depending on how long he sleeps we'll try for one or two more naps today and, of course, early bedtime.

[NiknLily]

LauraRose - Your stuck in the same early schedule rut Lily was in waking at 5am, if you aim for making day 12.5hrs thats bedtime at 5.30pm and I just found it impossible to get my act together enough to get her an early night when a late night was 5.30 Thats why I finally just went for it and shifted day on.  It was tricky but I figured your whole schedule is screwed up your all ready OT, what can it hurt   It was best thing I did because as soon as she was waking at 7am and going to bed at 7pm I was able to put her down at say 6pm for a super early night.  Things just go so much easier when their day runs in line with yours