Author Topic: pat/shh success stories PLEASE POST, really discouraged  (Read 59797 times)

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Offline bla04017

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pat/shh success stories PLEASE POST, really discouraged
« on: October 23, 2007, 21:34:09 pm »
I am really trying to be persistant with the pat/shh with my 6 wk old... dh and I decided to try no matter what for one week if no 2 weeks.  I am hoping it'll work, but I'm already feeling discouraged at day 2.  I need some encouragment by people's success stories. How long did you have to do it before they could settle on their own?  What was the pattern-- every nap? how long each time? in the middle of naps? etc.
PLEASE POST SOMETHING, or I might just quit and go back to CC (and I don't want to do that!)

Offline lyndsy_p

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Re: pat/shh success stories PLEASE POST, really discouraged
« Reply #1 on: October 23, 2007, 21:49:19 pm »
Hi...{{[hugs}} honey, don't do CC. That breaks a trust that you can't easily get back.

My LO is 6.5months old and shh/patt works to this day. We do a modified version of it at every nap and most bedtimes, also we use it after the dreamfeed if she's woken up. She didn't like it at first, and I practically had to yell the shh part to get above her crying. That was the part that got her orginally, the "shh". It seemed apparent that she couldn't concentrate on crying if I did it. I felt like my arm and back were going to seize, and who was crazy enough to think this would work. I patt her bum instead of her back, she would arch if I did it that way. I also used to patt her bum quite hard....family members couldn't believe that this would actually put her to sleep as opposed to wake her up, but it worked. I had to do it over my shoulder for a while in the beginning, then we did it in her crib on her side. She sleeps on her side to this day, and it only takes a quiet shh, and some light patts and she's relaxed...I then leave the room and she's off to dreamland.

Consistancy is the best advice I can give you. Stick with it, and patt past the point you think she's sleeping. Slowly slow down the patting until your hand is just resting on her and then leave.

It'll get better
HTH :)
Lyndsy



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Re: pat/shh success stories PLEASE POST, really discouraged
« Reply #2 on: October 23, 2007, 22:37:13 pm »
Hi,

My DS2 was a horrible sleeper for the first 10 months of his life.  That is when I got really sick and tired of being up all hours of the night.  I got all sleep training books ever written and decided I liked BWing best.

So at 10.5 months I used Shh/pat because I felt PU/PD would not work quicklly enough for me since my son had/has really bad SA.  It took 1.5 weeks of consistantly putting my son back to sleep with Shh/pat.  It worked really well.  We went from 5-6 NWings per night to one per week.  Now my son is 16 months old and he sleeps through most nights unless he has a cold or wakes thirsty.  B/c he is older I leave a 4 oz bottle of water in his crib and he puts himself back to sleep.

It will get better you LO is so young yet.  I didn't worry about sleep training with either of my boys until 2.5 or 3 months.

Lots of hugs to you

Offline hannahbanana

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Re: pat/shh success stories PLEASE POST, really discouraged
« Reply #3 on: October 23, 2007, 22:54:00 pm »
Shh/pat also worked for me, but it wasn't until she was about 2.5-3 months that the hard crying at naps finally subsided.  Our problem, I think, was putting her down a bit too early, which caused her to resist naps from about 6-7 weeks.  Like noted above, I had to shhh REALLY loudly and the patting was almost like thumping at times.  You have to overtake their senses.  But, once I started waiting until she started her whiny fussing to move into sleep mode, shh/pat got down to less than 5 minutes.  Now, she hugs her bunny and sucks her fingers and put herself to sleep, unles she's overtired, in which case I put my hand on her and shush (she still responds to the sound).

I also started BW early, about 4-5 weeks.  I don't know that I'd put so much pressure of myself or the baby for #2 for independent sleep.  Some babies just need time to develop better habits.
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Offline shanaz

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Re: pat/shh success stories PLEASE POST, really discouraged
« Reply #4 on: October 23, 2007, 23:07:07 pm »
1st of all (((((((((BIG HUGS)))))))))))).  I just want to second what Lyndsy said, please don't do CC!  If you have done CC in the past then I would imagine that it might take you a little longer to re-build the trust with your LO but that should happen fairly quickly as he/she is still so young. 

We found it shh/pat worked really well with us but it did take a while before she was sleeping totally independently.  I agree with pps in that consistency is the key.  I think if you do it consistently for 2 weeks then your lo should be a lot easier to settle.  I think we started at around 45 - 60 mins to go down for night sleep and within a few weeks this was reduced to about 5 - 10 mins.  It is gradual and you just need to stick with it.

My DD is now 18 mths, all we do (and have done since she was about 3 mths old) is do bath etc, wind down stuff with getting her into pjs etc, read her a story, then put her in her cot, say "it's sleepytime now, mummy loves you" and that's it.  On the odd occaisions that she doesn't go down ok it's due to teething, separation anxiety or other illness, in other words, there's been a specific problem and once that's passed she's back to sleeping independently again. 

As Tracy said in her books, EASY doesn't mean that it's easy to do, but it makes everyone's (particularly the babies) lives sooooo much easier (calmer & peaceful too) in the long run. Please stick with it and when you're struggling, come on here for reassurance, it's what got me through some tough times.

Keep us up to date with how it's going....you can do it  :-*
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Offline Two mummies

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Re: pat/shh success stories PLEASE POST, really discouraged
« Reply #5 on: October 23, 2007, 23:17:32 pm »
Pat/Shh totally worked for us but maybe you have to lower your expectations a bit about how quickly and how consistently it will work.

It took a good couple of weeks for it to really kick in but it doesn't work all the time every time if you know what I mean. Consistency is the key and after a week or so you will notice it takes less time to settle your lo. When Riley was that age sometimes sh/pat didn't work and we had to resort to white noise maybe twice a week at bed time.

The only other tip I can give you is to try and remain calm, relaxed and in control. The more confidence you show your child the more they will pick up that feeling and relax into sleep.

It does work so hang in there, your hard work now will REALLY pay off in the long term.

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Offline Zoey

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Re: pat/shh success stories PLEASE POST, really discouraged
« Reply #6 on: October 23, 2007, 23:29:40 pm »
Hi there.  Big hugs to you.  I'm sorry you're having a hard time, is there someone who could come help so you can get some rest?  Sometimes when you're really tired, everything seems huge and hopeless.

I'd like to point out that CC and CIO - these things are not rec to be used on babies until baby is older (I read Dr Ferber himself said 8m).  So that really shouldn't be an option for a 6 week old.  Also, I'm not sure what you're goal is exactly but your baby is very young s/he may still need at least one feeding at night, and will need help from you to get to sleep.  I don't want you to set yourself up for failure by having an unattainable expectation.

At this age, pat/shh is used more to help baby to sleep without creating a prop.   By using pat/shh, as baby gets older and actually able to learn how to self soothe you start to help less, eventually letting them fall asleep indep.  But, know this is a process - it's not going to magically work in 2weeks for a baby this young, simply because baby may not but mature enough to learn how to do it all by themselves at this young age.  Does that make sense?  You may have read stories on the PUPD board about babies being taught to sleep and needing to commit to 2 weeks, these babies are much older (4m and up to use PUPD) and most often its being used to break a prop addiction like, say a paci - and to teach indep sleep.  We like to start using pat/shh right at the start so down the road, we don't have to break prop additions.  ;)

That said, let's review pat/shh for under 3 months:
This is how you do it.....

We don't pickup/putdown with babies under 3 months old because it's too overstimulating. Instead we completely calm the baby with pat/shush.

Swaddle the baby snugly and make sure the room is as dark as you can get it. Lay the baby on his side so you have access to the back. You can use a wedge or a rolled up towel to prop him up.

Patting and shushing is done with a firm pat in the center of the back (like a tick-tock rhythm) and a long, repeated shhhhhhhhhhhhhhh past (not into) the ear. Loudly, like a faucet. Not fast.

Generally you do the patting/shushing in the crib. Though if he cries, you can pick him up, patting and shushing him over your shoulder, until he's completely calm. Then lay him down and keep patting and shushing. (Put a hand on his chest, or if the room isn't very dark, shield his eyes from visual stimulation.) Try it in the crib but if he wont settle you can pick him up. Keep patting and shushing in the crib for 7 - 10 minutes after he's completely settled and zoning out. Eventually stop shushing. If he cries, shush again while patting and pick up if necessary. Eventually you will get to the point where you are patting and shushing, and he's zoning out and settled in the crib. Then you slow down the patting and shushing, then stop shushing, and keep patting until baby goes to sleep. Stay with him until he's in stage three - deeper into sleep, totally let go, no eye movements. Past the "jolt." You may or may not need to be patting still at this point. Some babies will need the patting, some will need the hand on the chest or just your presence. This is the age where they still need you to guide them into sleep, and this is how you do it without accidental parenting.

The key is not to stop just because baby has calmed down, keep it up. And stay with him, don't leave, until he's melted into the crib!

And if 40 - 45 minutes have passed without sleep, feed him and try again. He'll be hungry by then. (Copies and pasted from this thread:  https://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=26672.0


As you can see, at this age we still need to help baby quite a bit.  But, using pat/shh will help a lot down the road when baby gets a touch older because you will not have created a prop like rocking or feeding to sleep. 

Do you have baby on Easy?  If not, you can post here for help with that:  https://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?board=41.0   I would imagine at 6w your baby would need a 3h Easy routine.

Are you swaddling?  This really helps because at 6w baby's nervous system is still maturing and don't really have good control over their arms and legs, they startle themselves awake a lot - so a good, snug swaddle is really helpful.

Are you using white noise?  We use a fan set to high, facing the wall for white noise and it works great.  White noise kind of creates the same sort of sounds that they heard in the womb and it tends to be comforting to most.

I can tell you pat/shh does work.  I didn't use it til I found BW  - at 4m, but I have helped many people successfully use it.  Pat/shh helped us wean the paci and swaddle (because I wasn't lucky enough to know about it til my son was 4m and already addicted to the paci lol).   

Hang in there hun, this is a rough time but it does get better and you will get to sleep more than 2h at a time again.  Stick with pat/shh, it really will pay off - not immediately, probably not in 2 weeks completely - but it is the first step in the process of teaching baby healthy sleep habits that will last a life time.

Good Luck, we are here to support you.  HUGS HUGS HUGS
Zoey
« Last Edit: October 23, 2007, 23:35:58 pm by Zoey »
      

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Offline Jaime

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Re: pat/shh success stories PLEASE POST, really discouraged
« Reply #7 on: October 23, 2007, 23:45:48 pm »
i hear you on the feeling discouraged!!!  that was how I found this place!!   ;D  it just did NOT seem like it was working on my ds. 

but looking back - it was working.  it was just working very slowly.  he was touchy & grumpy and it was hard for me to learn how to work with him.  it took about 7 weeks to get his days & nights turned around where they belonged, another 3-5 weeks to get nighttime sleep sorted, and then another 6 weeks to get naps sorted. 

but it WORKED.  there were times when i cried, there were many times that i was exhausted.  keep in mind, when i give those lengths, that was how long it took to be finished.  there was improvement each day after about a week. 

YOU CAN DO IT.  YOU CAN DO IT.  YOU CAN DO IT.  there is a light at the end of the tunnel.  you WILL get through this.   ;D ;D
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Offline bla04017

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Re: pat/shh success stories PLEASE POST, really discouraged
« Reply #8 on: October 24, 2007, 00:07:58 am »
Okay... so some of you are making comments that he is so young to do sleep training to the point that he'll sleep on his own and that I shouldn't let him CIO.  I understand that, I didn't hear about BW until about a week ago so I didn't know WHAT to do at first.  I would hold him and he would cry in my arms so I thought if he is going to cry in my arms then why not just let him cry in the crib.  I would check on him often and that is what I did to start with because I didn't know any other way.  Once I read BW I felt like a pretty horrible person for doing that, but like I said i didn't know. 
BW says CIO is not good.  SOO the alternative is to do the shh/pat.  My baby is fussy ESPECIALLY when it is nap time so pretty much he crys all the time when it is time to sleep.  I don't want to leave him to cry So i'm doing shh/pat, BUT i don't think i have the sanity to do that everytime he cries too.  AUGHH I just feel like there is no alternative. 
I'm trying to stick with it.  Today for every nap I've been able to get him asleep within 30 mins of shh/pat.  (one of the naps he woke up and I tried to extend w/ shh/pat for another 30 mins--finally I just fed him).  I just feel like I'm putting A LOT of time into trying to avoid letting him cry and if it isn't even going to work until he is older and capable of soothing himself, what really is the point?  It seems like the point is to drown out his crying, not help him sleep. 
I'm not trying to be negative, i just need support and understanding of the process.   

Offline Two mummies

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Re: pat/shh success stories PLEASE POST, really discouraged
« Reply #9 on: October 24, 2007, 00:33:19 am »
Its very tough hey!

Lots of us have been there and been through worse! I guess one comment that sprang to mind with your last post was that babies do cry and it shouldn't be your goal to stop them crying full stop.

Sh/pat is used for bedtime, if your lo is crying at other times you can comfort him in other ways.

When previous posters say that they learn to settle themselves when they are older they are not suggesting that you are on a hopeless quest. What they mean is that as your lo gets older you may be able to simply pop them in the cot, give a quick goodnight and off they will go to sleep. At this young age you are providing reassurance and guidance and that is the point.

One thing I found really helpful when I was a brand new Mum was to lower my expectations about how much my lo would fuss and cry and how easy it would be to help them establish a good sleep pattern. They really are little random critters when they first arrive and it takes hard work to teach them and ourselves good habits.

I remember walking my lo around the house for a good hour every night for about 6 weeks between 5.00pm and 6.00pm when she would cry and cry and cry through the witching hour. It's just something you have to accept I'm afraid.

The more you can come to accept that being a Mum is really hard in the early stages the less of a hard time you will give yourself for not being able to solve all the problems right away.

Have you tried white noise? The SHHHHH in the sh/pat is kind of like white noise for babies but for us on those really hard nights we used a white noise CD turned up really loud and that was brilliant.

Soph
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Offline deckchariot

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Re: pat/shh success stories PLEASE POST, really discouraged
« Reply #10 on: October 24, 2007, 01:09:54 am »
Hugs to you!!!  I absolutely could have written your post when my dd was 6 weeks (in fact, I think my dh actually did!).  But pat/shh really does work!!!  We would spend so long doing it, taking turns with me, dh, and my mom, and sometimes still dd would not sleep.  But we really did teach her how to do it by herself, and gradually, the amount of shh/patting time got less and less, til eventually, we really do just wind her down and plop her in the crib.  It was horrible for the first couple months, but it's sooooooooooooooo pays off now!!!  For me, the worst time was 6-9 weeks, then nighttime sleep got sorted out, then daytime sleep.  Not that we never regress, but I definitely starting seeing improvement after a couple weeks.  Consistency is really the key.  YOU CAN DO IT!!!!!  And come here to vent and get encouragement whenever you need to!!!!
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Offline amy123

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Re: pat/shh success stories PLEASE POST, really discouraged
« Reply #11 on: October 24, 2007, 02:49:31 am »
<<<<BIG HUGS>>>>>  to you!  And you're in no way a "bad" mom or person for not knowing what else to do.  Even knowing about BW, there were times that I felt like I couldn't go on, that my back was going to collapse from bending over her crib shushing and patting, that I was going to lose my mind from lack of sleep.  I felt like things were never going to get better and that it wasn't "working."  When you're in the eye of the storm, that IS how it feels, so it's completely normal even though it's miserable.  But if you think of shh/pat and EASY as your compass...  even though you can't see where you're going, so many of us have been there and know that this is the way through it!  Like others have said, it's not a cake-walk out and it's going to take time, but it really does get better!! 

Remember, crying for babies generally peaks at about 6 weeks old, so you are getting through the toughest time right now.  You should likely start to see the amount of crying subsiding really soon.  I had to shift my mindset from "Stop crying!  Why are you crying!?  What am I doing wrong!?"  (which just made me anxious, worried, stressed, and even angry) to a mindset of "Poor baby.  It's so hard to be 6 weeks old.  I can't do much to help, but I'm here for you.  We'll get through it together." (which helped me send more relaxed vibes to my dd).  And when I was too exhausted for that to even work, I had to hand the baton off to someone else to take over for a while.

Do you have some support from a partner, a parent, a friend?  It's amazing what a 4 hour block of sleep will do for you if there's someone else who can help out.  Don't be afraid to ask anyone and everyone.

Hang in there!!!   
   



Offline bla04017

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Re: pat/shh success stories PLEASE POST, really discouraged
« Reply #12 on: October 24, 2007, 03:45:38 am »
Thank you everyone for your support and your posts.  I will continue to try.  I'm REALLY trying not to stress out, sometimes it is hard.  I am lucky because I do have support from my wonderful husband... but during the day it is all on me.  I know that the best thing I am doing right now is to get him on the routine, which I have been doing since day one (a eat/wake/sleep cylce)  has anyone heard of the Babywise booK??  That is what I was going by. Everything is nearly the same as with BW, except for the CIO.  Babywise said in no way will it hurt to let them cry 10-15 minutes and that it is more harmful to just block out their crys(ex: by picking them up to get them quiet).... BUT when i heard of the BW and read about not CIO I wanted so bad to try that because I don't like hearing him cry for that long. 
I will try and try and try.... SIGH.... I do accept that being a mom is hard WORK!
Thanks again everyone.  Keep posting those success stories  :-*

Offline Kimberly®

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Re: pat/shh success stories PLEASE POST, really discouraged
« Reply #13 on: October 24, 2007, 04:29:49 am »
I know its hard. But 6 weeks is still very young.

I don't want to scare you, but in reality it may be 2-3 weeks before you see a change, especially because CC/CIO was used in the past. But please keep trying. It really will get better.

Don't feel guilty, when we know better we do better. No one here believes in CC/CIO but they also wont judge you or critisize you. We're all here for you. If you feel guilty he will sence that.

Did you read about the 5 S's in the last post I sent for you? (in a previous question of yours)

Pat/shush is hard work, good for you keeping with it.

Have you checked out the EASY bored at all? I highly suspect some changes in routine will also help with fussyness. If your LO is overtired it will take a lot longer to settle him. AS hard as it is to hear him cry, some crying is normal, but its easier for him to do it in your arms, (OK so maybe not for you  ;) ) but really it'll build a strong bond and he will learn to sooth himself rather then close himself off.

Don't use babywise, thats too rigid. Babies don't go by the clock, instead follow his cues, let him lead the way. Sounds crazy, but it really helps. He knows when he is tired, hungry, bored, if you listen you can learn to understand. Takes a lot of work and time, but when you learn it you feel so much better.

You need a routine NOT a schedual. This way there is more flexability.

This will eventually settle into a solid routine, but really at 6 weeks, let loose and just watch him. Take a few days, stop and step back. Write everything down, thats what we did with DD.

I took 3 days and wrote everything, eating sleeping, peeing, pooing, everything, and you know what, a pattern developed that made making and EASY routine a lot easier. It followed her natural order and thus was easier on us both. Its about flexablity and in the end respect. You cannot expect him to fall into a routine right away, more then likely a solid routine wont really develope untill closer to 8-10 weeks. It can take 2-3 weeks on solid work to get a good base for a routine, once you have it though your good to go, only minor tweeking to meet his development and age.

Until then relax (hard I know) but really its true. If your stressed he'll stress, if your calm, he'll calm.

Also do the baby type test. Find out what type your baby is. Do that now and you can better understand your LO, a spirited baby needs different treatment then an Angel baby. Remember sleep signs are so suttle that you really need to watch. My DD is Spirited and for the longest time if I saw her Yawn I knew it was to late :( it was all bad, then I finally noticed her eye's started to go red and swell, ever so lightly, and BINGO!! I found a sleep cue I could finally catch ;D but that wasn't untill about 8 weeks I believe, maybe a bit longer.

Do it again in a month or so and you may find your LO is actually a different type, and just needed some help to get there.

Take a big step back and breath, you need to lower your expectations just a little. We've all been there, especially when its the first time, I know I was. But its true, once I lowered my expectations, she surpassed them.

You cannot expect a 6 week old to go 1.5-3 hours with no sleep (I did :-[ and it made me go mental) you cannot expect a 6 week old to only eat every 3 hours (some will, but its also an age for a growth spurt, most need feeds every 2 hours, especially BF babies) You cannot expect a 6 week old to self sooth (they just can't do it) and you cannot expect a 6 week old to "sleep through the night (anyone says theirs does is more then likly lieing, VERY few do.)

hth

P.S. your doing the right thing, your a great mom. Just keep saying that :) its true!!!
Kimberly

Offline Zoey

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Re: pat/shh success stories PLEASE POST, really discouraged
« Reply #14 on: October 24, 2007, 13:14:39 pm »
Thank you everyone for your support and your posts.  I will continue to try.  I'm REALLY trying not to stress out, sometimes it is hard.  I am lucky because I do have support from my wonderful husband... but during the day it is all on me.  I know that the best thing I am doing right now is to get him on the routine, which I have been doing since day one (a eat/wake/sleep cylce)  has anyone heard of the Babywise booK??  That is what I was going by. Everything is nearly the same as with BW, except for the CIO.  Babywise said in no way will it hurt to let them cry 10-15 minutes and that it is more harmful to just block out their crys(ex: by picking them up to get them quiet).... BUT when i heard of the BW and read about not CIO I wanted so bad to try that because I don't like hearing him cry for that long. 
I will try and try and try.... SIGH.... I do accept that being a mom is hard WORK!
Thanks again everyone.  Keep posting those success stories  :-*

Yes, this is the hardest work I've done - but it's also the best job ever.  It's hard to see past the fog when you're not sleeping and not eating well - but it does get better, I promise.  Pat/shh is worth it, for your baby and for you - it may be hard to see that now, but you will look back on a few months and be very glad you stuck with it.  You can do this, for you and your baby.  He is so little, he needs Mumma to be with him to teach him, to comfort him  :-*

Keep us posted!
      

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