dropping cluster feed

[nolansmommy]

my lo is 9 weeks old and i would like to drop his cluster feed at night.  i started 2 nights ago and he woke up MANY times.  Most times I am able to get him to go back down but last night i had to give him an extra feeding at 2 am.  our eatning was this before i dropped: 7, 10, 1, 4, 6, 8, df 10 with an overnight feed at 3:30.  now i am on 7, 10, 1, 4, 7, df 10.  he has not been taking a full feed at 10 which i feel is the reason for earlier waking time overnight.  my question is...will the frequent waking times stop as he gets adjusted to the change?  will he start to learn to take more at each feeding?  i will stick with this for a week but i can go back to cf if i have to.  the schedule works better for our family w/o the cf.  thanks for any advice!!

[First Time Mom]

I think 9 weeks is young to sleep through the night without a feed, especially with cutting the cluster feed. Does he normally have one night feed around 2am or did it just start when you dropped the cluster? It does sound like the extra wakes were due to hunger, did he wake much after the 2am feed?

At this age I was doing the cluster feed and the df and 2 night feeds (1:30am and 4:30am). Dd dropped the 4:30am feed soon after and didn't go through the night w/o a feed until 16 weeks. I know in Tracy's book she says to do a cluster feed until around 8 weeks but she also says to listen to the baby's hunger cues and signals. I continued the cluster and df until well past Tracy's recommended age, my dd needed it.

I know you mention the cluster is hard with your family's schedule but the extra feed may help lo have less nws. Perhaps you can offer a bottle of EBM in liu of the bf?

[nolansmommy]

before i changed his routine he awoke at 2 am (sh/pat back to sleep) and at 3:30 am for a feeding.  Last 2 nights he has woken almost every hour to hour and a half.  I always try to sh/pat back to sleep but when that doesn't work I know he's hungry which happened to be 2 times instead of his usual one time at 3:30.  I guess I have my answer...he's not ready.      How did you get your lo to "Catnap" between your cluster feedings?  It's difficult when it takes him about 20 min to even settle for sleep.  If he doesn't catnap he is a BEAR to get down for the night (OS and OT). 

[Jennerific]

what about if you drop the dream feed but keep up the clustering? i'm on pretty much the same routine as you except we're an hour off - so we start at 8 instead of 7 & cluster at 5, 7, 9pm - i don't do a dreamfeed, my son never took to it (he always woke up) but with the clusters i've been getting from 9pm - 2 or 3am straight. maybe this is what your guy needs? (how big is your son? just curious...)

[First Time Mom]

She was still sleeping in a bassinet in our room (fit in it until she was 6 months old) so I swaddled and offered her a paci (started the paci around 6 weeks). I remember I had to put a dark coloured towel over the hood to cut out light. I really focused on extending the morning nap to 2 hours, the afternoon one was generally good, so the third was always a maximum 45 minute catnap, sometimes it would even take place in the stroller in a mall as we were in the dead of winter and I was itching to get out! The cluster feed was followed by a diaper change then her catnap, I kept it low key.

Question for you- have you ever fed him at the 2am wake? Just asking to see what it does to his 3:30 wake, to see if he actually sleeps through at that point. When my dd dropped to one nw and feed it was the 1:30am feed, then she slept through from 1:45am until 7am.

[nolansmommy]

answer to fawndoe:  I am not sure how much he weighs!  Is that terrible?  We haven't been back to the ped since he was 3.5 weeks.  It took him a little longer to get back to his birth weight so at that last visit he was 7.15...his birth weight.  I am ASSUMING he is at least 9 pounds. 

answer to First Time Mom:  I fed him last night at the 2 am wake and he went until 5 am with no peep.  He eats every 3 hours like clockwork during the day so that didn't surprise me.  I know he can go 5 -6 hours at night because he did it before his growth spurt...not regularly but he did do it.   I think I am having bigger issues than the cluster feeding also.  To make a long story short he has been doing a lot of "bucking and bobbing" after a 10 min aggressive feed since his growth spurt.  My instincts tell me that he isn't fully satisfied at each feeding and I have to work hard to get him to stay on each breast for what "i think" is enough.  He whimpers while he bucks and bobs so I know he's hungry and not done with the feeding.  I keep him at the breasts until he doesn't whimper but he doesn't have that "milk drunk" look anymore and then we have the night time wakings.  I just feel like he's not getting what he needs from me right now and the growth spurt spawned a bigger appetite.  I supplemented 2 oz tonight and he gulped it down.  I have fought and fought to keep him off the supplement but I gave in tonight and got very emotional about it although I know it's logically probably the best thing for him right now.  we have had NO issues with BF up to this point.  We had a longer time getting to birth weight b/c he had conjunctivis when he was a week old but we overcame that with lots of feedings.  ANYWAY...sorry so long but I'm not sure what to do about his large appetite except for add the cluster feedings back in.  I am afraid to feed him 2x during the night b/c sometimes he doesn't take a full feeding and I don't want to encourage snacking.  How do I get him to take a full feed during his "E" time???    sorry this turned into something completely different!!

[First Time Mom]

Sorry you're having a rough time. First, I'd like to comment on the supplementing as a bf'd lo is not necessarily hungry if they gulp down a few extra ounces of formula. You have to remember they are not used to formula or the free flow of a bottle because they have to work at bfing so when they are given formula in a bottle they tend to chug it down, regardless of fullness or hunger. Think of us adults eating a tasty desert after a meal when we're already full, to others watching they would think we are starved. As well, any amount of formula they take from a bottle translates to breast milk we will not produce as bm is on a supply= demand basis.  I really do think adding formula to a bf'd baby that nurses well and gains weight appropiately does more harm than good.

If he's now taking a "10 min aggressive feed" it could be because he has become more efficient at feeding, he now knows what he's doing. I found the "milk drunk" look only lasted the first few weeks with my dd, then she became more aware of her surroundings. If you're really uneasy about how much he's getting is it possible to go and get him weighed before his next appt? It would give you peace of mind. When my dd started the fussing/bobbing at the breast I would put her one one side until she fussed, then to the other, until she fussed, then I would actually put her back to the first side if I was worried she didn't get enough and she would actually take some extra.

If he's having additional nws I would give in to the 2nd night feed, even if it's a partial feed (maybe just from one side). He's still quite young so it might just be a few weeks off that he'll drop a feed. I don't think you'll make a snacker with one feed that's not a full feed, to make a snacker you'd have to be feeding all day long the second he cries- one hour intervals, and everything in between and you sound like you're on a great routine for feeds.

Let us know how your next night goes and what you've decided to do.

[nolansmommy]

Well...last night was perfect.  He slept from 9:30 p - 4:30 a without a single peep.  I df'd at 11 pm and he ate for 10 minutes on one side.  I couldn't get him to do more than that.  So, of course to me it looks like the additional 2 oz of formula kept him satisified.  I do understand that BF'd babies wake more at night because formula is heavier. But he went from waking the past few nights every 1.5 hour to nothing until his middle of the night feed.  This morning he ate at 7:30 am for 45 min, then A for 15 min, then S and he woke about 25 min into his nap crying (not usual during the day).  I tried to get him back down with Sh/Pat and he was sucking on my shoulder which is a definite hunger cue for him.  I fed him (2.5 hours after his last feed) and he ate again for 45 minutes.  This is just not normal for him.  Should I just resign to the fact that nothing will be normal because they change so often?  I am going to try and get him weighed this week.  Thanks for your advice and I am glad to hear that your LO "bobbed" too. 

[First Time Mom]

Good to hear he slept better at night!

Could he have been going through a growth spurt? At that age it seems like they finish one and turn around to have another one.

I wouldn't be too concerned that he took his feed 1/2 hour earlier. I think the 3 (and later 4) hour feed times should be a guideline with flexibilty. As adults we don't eat by the clock, we eat when we are hungry and it is usually around a similar time each day.

You're right, not much is "normal" because by the time you get one time/routine down they are growing and into another!