EASY and the day/night switch

[*Nicola*]

Stacy I agree holding does make it worse.  We have been putting her down sooner and sooner and today I began to work on soothing her to sleep from awake in her cot.  Went really well and DP is currently getting her up from nap of 1.5 hours.

Michelle, we used a tight swaddle and a blanket tucked in under the mattress to keep her 'secure' last night and she slept through the jolts with patting and then without   

We seem to be getting there slowly but surely. 

Thanks guys 

[Tamara]

Finally got round to finding your post Nic - as you know we seem to be experiencing the same problems with Ioan and since he was born a week and a half ago, we've been managing by doing tag-team parenting(ie shifts) but I'd like to get him a bit more settled by the time Mark goes back to work in just over a week.

Ioan seems super awake, and not necessarily upset (although is pretty fussy on and off) at night time and hasn't settled before 4am since he's arrived.  I stay up with him till then at which point I have to go and drag Mark out of bed to take over from me - I then sleep in in the morning and we both try and have a nap later on in the day (was easier when Elin was at school that now in Xmas Hols)

Since a coule of days ago, we've started to put him onto a 2 hour EASY and that's been pretty easy as he seems to wake on cue at the 2 hours mark.  He's very difficult to keep awake after his feed though, changing his nappy wakes him up but once he's back dressed he falls straight back asleep lol    We then let him sleep for the hour - hour 15 mins left.

What I don't get though is how soundly he sleeps during the day - you can do anything to him and he won't wake up, whereas between 11pm and 5am, just the slightest movement will wake him up and I mean wide awake.

If we keep going with the 2 hour EASY for the next few days and do all the other things suggested to distinguish between night and day - will it come right??

Last night, I stayed on the sofa till 6am as he seems to settle SO much better down in the lounge.  As soon as I take him upstairs he's unsettled as anything - WHY??

What we were planning was a couple more nights down here so that he settles and hopefully sorts his day/night sleeps out a bit then we'd tackle the sleeping upstairs business lol

Sorry to hijack

[*Nicola*]

Awel

((Hugs)) my lovely. 

Just reading back my own posts here and saying to Grant how it seems like a lifetime ago.  Saying that, the pain is still raw so I am feeling your sleeplessness! 

In BWSAYP, Tracy advises that to fix the day night switch you need to let baby nap for no longer than 1 hour at a time initially. You do this for the first 3 days and then begin to increase the nap time by 15 minutes every 2 days (I think, but will double check for you). We did this pretty much to the letter unless we were out, and seen an improvement really quickly. 

If you can bear to wake him up and stick to this I'd say it was well worth it Awel.

I think I would wake her on feed time, change her nappy, strip her to her vest, rub her hands gently, walk my fingers up her spine whilst feeding her. I would also sit her up after feeds but often even that didn't wake her up! .  Have you seen the post on BF forum on how to keep newborn awake to feed?  There's some good tips there.  Anyway, we followed them all as best we could.  It did get better but first couple of days were a nightmare!  After feeds I would change her again just to fill in some time and then often try to get another top up feed in before putting her down for a sleep.

Stacy suggested getting her outdoors as that helps to 'reset' body clock so we did this a lot too. 

I remember Stacy saying that after following the above Kabel became a good night sleeper and a crap napper ... LOL the same happened here and we moved on to battling naptimes!!

HTH a bit my lovely 

[*Nicola*]

And swaddling ...

I would definitely try swaddling him at nights.  It will maybe help him settle down/feel snug and secure and also stop him waking at the jolts. 

And white noise?? Do you use any? 

Just trying to think of things to help 

[Tamara]

Nic - appreciate your input 

We are now on a 2 hour EASY, so he sleeps definitely no more than 1.5 hours and usually about an hour by the time he's been fed, burped, cuddled, changed and finally back asleep. 

Sometimes though he has major awake times and can be super alert and awake for well over an hour - not sure how to handle that then....do I still only let him sleep an hour from then on in?  I fnd that these super awake times mess with the timings of his 2 hourly feeds - feed and sleep times clash   

If he sleeps, I tend to let him sleep and then make sure he goes no more than 3 hours between feeds in this instance, but if he seems hungry before sleep, I feed him, and then he goes straight to sleep (on the boob mostly)  I try to see what he needs most - does this sound reasonable??

Re: white noise - obviously in the day, there's plenty of noise, at nigh, not so much although I did have the TV on one night to see if that would help (and to help pass the long night for me  ) but I couldn't see that it made a difference.

Swaddling - not tried it in earnest tbh.  Did try it last week, and he seemed to get super annoyed by it, but he was very cranky by then anyway, so it may not have been the swaddle.  I am seriously thinking about trying to swaddle properly, but slightly concerned as I've seen many a post title about weaning from a swaddle, I don't really want to cause a prop problem 

When Elin was a baby at this age till probably 10-ish weeks (can't quite remember) we didn't really expect or try to settle her for the night till about 11pm. 

I am happy for Ioan to be up till about 10pm now too before he settles for the night, so should I just from that time stop waking him for 2 hourly feeds and see how long he goes?  (I bet it'll only be 2 hours still, mind  he really has an in-built 2 hourly alarm!!)

I am horrified to hear that both you Nic and Stacy soted the nightime out only to have problematic naps - I am SOOOOO scared of that happening because I had a totaly nightmare with Elin and her naps for 13 months!!!!

Thanks for all your input 

[* Paula *]

Hi Awel,

I have been keeping an eye on this thread too, as we were having the same problems as Nic in the early days.

I too thought that Abbie hated the swaddle, but found that by the time I was acutally coming up to swaddling her, she was OT, and this is why she was fussing when we swaddled.

We have not looked back and are using the miracle blanket, and it works great, although as she is getting stronger she is starting to break out of it, but is now where near ready to be weaned from it yet.

I would definitely suggest trying the swaddle again and see how it goes.

With regards to bedtimes etc.  When Abbie was younger I was keeping her in the lounge until I went to bed, and found that it actually overstimulated her more, and started getting a bedtime routine sorted, and made sure she was in bed by no later than 8pm.  When she woke for another feed we would then treat it as a night feed.  She has become so much more settled since we implemented her bedtime routine.

 

[*Nicola*]

Awel,

I agree with Paula re the swaddle.  Give it a try and see how he goes.  You could swaddle him before bedtime feed so he is sleepy/falls asleep in swaddle then put him down.  Much easier to settle them when they are swaddled as it stops arms and legs going everywhere.  Also keep him swaddled during night feeds. 

Callie still fusses/cries as soon as we swaddle her but it usually turns to mantra cry quickly then she moves her head about until she settles (hence the baldy spot!)

Re: sleeping times ... We stuck pretty religiously to the hour nap for the first 3 days and it worked well, so to be honest I would go for this.  I think Tracy says that if baby sleeps more than 5 hours during the day then they will sleep less at night.

I wasn't really that bothered about naps being crap as I would rather deal with awake times during the day than at night!! I totally understand what you mean though. 

White noise ... if there is lots during day and he is settled, I would def try it at night.  We have humidifier and noise machine going!

Re bedtime: I guess it depends on what you are happiest with.  I wanted Callie down for the night as early as she would go so that I could get Ciara down and then get some sleep myself.  We put her down at 630pm initially and let her sleep as long as she would.  I think she used to go until 930pm so we'd feed her and she'd sleep another 3 hours.  Pretty soon she stretched the first 3 hours to 4 hours and then 5 hours and ended up sleeping her longest stretch then.  I could then sleep or have me time in the evening. 

If you prefer him to have his long stretch after midnight then I guess you could continue with the 11pm bedtime.  Whatever works best 

[Tamara]

  Thanks Paula and Nic - you're great 

I think my fear with putting him down too early for the evening (eg 7pm) is that he sleeps a good stretch in the early evening and is then awake (again as he is now) pretty much all night between 2am and 5am.  All I'm thinking is that if he goes down later he might do a good stretch in the 'proper' night when I really need to sleep. 

If he's awake before midnight - so be it, either I'm up too, or I could go and sleep and Mark could stay up a bit later.

If he's awake after midnight, I'm pretty much on my own (or will be once Mark's back at work next week) and therefore will be be conitually knackered the next day - am fed up of feeling muzzy headed 

[* Paula *]

Hugs hun I know how you feel.  That is why we stayed up so late with Abbie.

I think we started our bedtime routine around 4 weeks or so and it did start to work from there.

[MJMom]

Tamara, just saw your post and noticed how little your wee one is.  I completely agree!  I think the first several weeks, our bed time was more like 10ish for the very reason you're talking about.  At least I could sleep then between 10 and 3ish (sort of) before the nw's start!

FWIW, many moms don't really begin sleep training and such until 8 weeks old.  Any habits that they have now can easily be broken.  The only thing I would caution is 1. falling asleep at the breast.  And 2, keeping the Eat Awake Sleep cycle during the day and Eat Sleep at night.

You're doing great! 

Hugs!

[Tamara]

Thank you for your input.

I suppose he did better last night, although I personally didn't end up with any more sleep.

He woke for his feed every 2 hours still, taking about 20 mins to eat.  Then by the time I'd tried to burp him and got him settled again enough for me to think about sleeping - there's usually just over an hour gone, and of course, he's then due a feed again in an hour    I am hoping that he will naturally lengthen this sleep period at night and go longer between feeds - at the mo, I don't think there's much that I can do about it.

I am keeping him on a 2 hours EASY durng the day, so naps are no longer than 1 hour, and I have the bedroom dark and quiet with minimal interaction with him at night (boy, that's hard - SO want to cuddle and talk to him 

Think one thing that I could and SHOULD do is take a nap in the day and definitely go to bed earlier!!! I am my own worst enemy 

[* Paula *]

Hugs Awel, things will get better I promise 

[*Nicola*]

LOL @ you up late last night!! I had a terrible nights sleep after being at PC for so long!

I know what you mean about wanting to cuddle and talk at night!  I was the same!