Support and Chat thread for moms of early waking toddlers

[debo620]

Rina, I think she may suprise you---Noah slept incredibly well when we were away, slept 11 hrs EVERY night and 2hrs EVERY nap.... that was only in August.

we had a great day yesterday followed by an AWFUL night.
so yesrtday he woke around 6
layed him down at 11:40---he kicked around til 12 and then slept til 1:40----so 1hr 40min woke on his own
bed 7, hopeing he'd be asleep around 7:15
he fussed off and on til 7:30-

woke crying at 3--was awake til 4:15, and then woke at 6:15 this morning.
so <10hr last night.
I am going to go back to putting him to bed 5hrs after nap end just to allow him that time actually fall asleep, since he is usally haveing closer to 6hrs before his nap.

[LisaM]

Yuk...it gets worse!  She didn't take her morning nap today, just happy in her cot for ages but no sleep - I had hoped that yesterday afternoon was just a fluke.  So ended up having to keep her up until after we had picked dd1 up so she was up for 6 hrs when I put her to bed, then she babbled again for 30 mins (I was convinced she wasn't going to go off again) and then only slept for 50 mins.  So thats it for the day 50 mins sleep - yesterday was 55 mins, the only better bit about today is that at least her last nap didn't end at 9.30am!  Both nights have put her to bed at 5.30pm, I feel bad for her.  When she woke from the nap she would not stop crying for about 40 mins - I hate this.  Still will have to see what tomorrow brings (well what the night brings first, would be great if didn't have to worry about NW's as well as the EW).

Hope everyone else gets a good night x

[Aly Mac]

LisaM, sorry you had a bad day.....don't you just wish they'd sleep?  like how hard it is? you're tired - just close your eyes!!!!!!

Deb, sounds like a  good day and bad night...sorry for that. as you said, the only advantage to nw is no ew- not much consolation.

Rina, have a good trip - L sleeps well while away too.

Well had a good day and night last night. short and a long nap (1.5), to sleep at 6.30 and woke at 5.45am and that was only cause the phone woke her (dh is a tradesman so you get calls sometimes early - yuk!)

Sticking to Layla's plan worked yesterday so will keep going!  YOu know, Layla is ALWAYS right when it comes to what to do with L's sleep. NO exageration - this is like the 4th time I"ve needed help and she is always on the money.  YOU ROCK!!!

[debo620]

yay Aleesa, thats great progress.

with the bad night last night, I gave Noah his nap at 11:30 and he slept til 1:15---so ok, bed at 6:15, and he played, jumped, fussed and he is still not sleeping at 7, he is fussing and jumping. I thought less sleep last night, better do an early nap, then I thought okay go to bed early and no such luck there either. 7:20 and he has started to cry again
help me if he is already OT. I feel like we are chronically OT and cant get out of it.

I really would not mind a little less sleep overall--- can handle that , buts its been less then 12 hrs now for days. an average of 12.5 would be great but an average of 11.5---give me a break!

[Layla]

Aly - thank you.  I am blushing  & I hope things keep on working out for you!

Lisa - Gosh... how did your night go?

Deb, something I read up on a while ago is that our bodies are conditioned to go to sleep around the same time every day (naps and night)... body temperature changes, etc.... so I think by offering bedtime at 7-7.30pm one night & then 6-6.30 the next will probably not work. He will probably just play & lay there cause he is really not ready for bed & then eventually he will get himself into an overtired frenzy... & will end up calling out for you or even cry. So if you are trying for an earlier bedtime maybe try bringing it up about 15mins earlier.... so 6:45.. which is reasonably close to his 7ish bedtime.

[Aly Mac]

Deb is he happy in the day?  or does he show signs of OT?  just asking, and I'm sure others have probably said this, but maybe he just needs less than the average?  of course, if he's not happy, then just tell me to get back in my box!!!!

[Aly Mac]

I think the main thing to remember with all this and the 2-1 switch, is that everyone is different, and what works for one will not work for another. going by A times definately works for L.  She is just as happy going down at 5.30pm as at 7pm as long as it's the same amount of A time before hand.  Then again L is younger, so maybe as they get older this changes. For months everyone told me to lengthen A times and L would nap longer - never worked.  I then shortened the A times and voila, she slept longer and then I could lengthen the A time as she was better rested.

With all sleepoing things I think you just have to try one plan of attack consistently for a while, and if it doesn't work then change to something else.  Certainly with me, consistency is the key..

happying sleeping everyone.

[debo620]

LOL Aleesa, I don't know if he is OT or he is just being a toddler, KWIM? seems to me he is getting frustrated easier and crying more when he doesn't get his way.when he is well rested these don't seem as prevealant. he is also actively getting his 2nd year molars, 1 down and 1 just cutting, so that may be the issue too.

Layla, that makes sense. Its sort of the same for his nap. like btwn 11:45/12 is perfect/ 12:15 too late. typically nedtime is 7, but I tried that yeserday and he took 40min to fall asleep, woke in the night and got even less sleep.  thus I thought ok bed earlier so he can fall asleep by 7, since bad night and 1hr 40min ==I guess that backfired too. I try for in bed for 5hrs after nap===so the nap ended at 1:15 and thats how I got 6:15. used to always work--not anymore.

Stacy, I see your point aswell. but that exactly what happened yesterday, woke 6, nap 12-1:40. bed 7, not asleep til 7:40 and then we had that NW  and awoke at 6:10.

new day tommorow I guess.

[debo620]

well I don't know, last night he woke screaming, and I didn't go right away,  I gave him water and advil---he fussed about and then I had to go in about 1hr later because he was crying again--but back to sleep soon after that.

I do hear wake him up at night, ( his room is about 1 meter away from ours) sometimes for 10min etc, and not need me at all. so I don't really think I've set up any dependency on me.

does Kaleb show random tired cues throughtout the day? Noah will rub his eyes like hes tired mid -morning and mid afternoon but be happy at the same time and not actually wanting sleep. I just worry that this is a sign that he is not well rested overall. Thats my main concern. I hate having a tired toddler and it just seems like the less sleep he gets the more and more he fights it.
sounds stupid, but my body has gotten used to less sleep (I physically can't sleep much more the 6hours) and maybe Noah has gotten used to having less sleep too.

[LisaM]

Aly - I'm glad thing seem to be going in the right direction for you, hope it stays that way.

Deb - I know what you mean about needing less sleep or getting used to less sleep, I think my dd does this too as when we tried later bedtime she just got used to getting by with even less sleep than normal.

Anyway, another bad night, she woke at 1.30 and was awake until 3.50 and then slept for an hour til 4.50.  Gave her the bottle and she was quiet until 5.30 and then I got her up.  Just do not know why the NW have started again apart from she was definitely teething the other week so maybe that was the start but she is doing exactly what she used to months ago when she would wake each night and be up for 2-2.5 hrs.  Am at wits end really as we are in a downward spiral of OT.  This morning she has now just woken from a 35 min nap!! It took her 30 mins to go off again so its definitely a pattern that she is trying not to nap now as well.  It makes the EW's seem like the easy life now, I would be happy to be back to her having her 10 hrs at night and taking 2 naps in the day without a problem.

[Pitkin2]

Sorry been reading bits here....

Layla I need help again.   I put him down at 12.30 yesterday for nap ( 5.30 am wake) for 1hr 30 mins then put him to bed at 7.30 pm and wake up this am was 5.45 am however he has been in a real bad mood all morning - tired I think as he slept less that 10.5 hours last night.

So today he fell a sleep in car at midday and I'm going to give him 2 hours today and put him to bed at 7.30 pm because he really was not happy this morning and was like a different child, crying and moaning.

Do you think I'm doing the right thing or do you think I should shorten the nap?  Sorry I'm just really getting in a mess with all this. 

Emma

PS Lisa M - how old is your LO are you in 2-1 switch? Sounds to me as if you need to start holding out for the one big sleep.   We had NW when he went 2-1 and he would not sleep in afternoons and would not sleep in mornings in the end I headed for 11 am nap and early bedtime 6.45pm until we reached 1 nap at 11.45am and he was older.

[Layla]

Emma, did you ad 30mins in 1 day? He's probably a little cranky because of that as well as the shorter night. Probably better to let him sleep 2hrs today & then start again tomorrow with 12pm nap for 1.5hrs & 7pm beditme. Try 12:15 for about 3 days after that & then 12.30 for the next 3. Pushing slowly worked for us better than 30mins at a time

[debo620]

well all I'll say is awake from 1am-3am crying, screaming, jumping, laughing in his bed--not sleeping and still woke this morning a little after 6:30, after asleep at 7:30, aaargh...

not sure how long he'll sleep today, but I'm offering the nap at 11:30/11:40 after playgroup and then trying for asleep by 7pm. Is it a good or a bad thing if he sleeps 2hrs today???
just want a better night tonight!

[debo620]

really I think it is OT, its like he can't get back to sleep. when he is better rested he'll wake for a few minute and have no problems without me. last night was just weird even by his standards.
he was sooooo mad, but honeslty I don't do anything when I do go to him. I intially gave him the pain meds and water and after that I sometimes even just talk to him through his door and try to settle that way. If hes really mad then its bascially wi/wo I don't do anything special....

[samijoe]

you know Deb i seriously think there is some other reason for his night wakings, like perhaps going to him too soon or something?  They do wake up, can for hours but if you dont go to them they know go back to sleep

Just weird to have them this long in length and for this long.  I think perhaps the issues are not even related

Does he cry, upset upset cry? When do you go to him, how do you know hes awake? Do you use a monitor and hear him? Perhaps you go to soon, or atleast used to and set up a expectation

deb, i hope i am not sticking my nose in where things don't belong.  i have been reading along now for many pages (i still check up on fellow 2-1nappers).  what stacy is saying here really hit home for me regarding your problems with noah.

i think noah is still in a crib..... if he is not, please correct me of course.

my avery is on a solid one nap situation now, but we recently had a problem with this.  my little non-waker was suddenly waking and not being very nice about it.  please note, we are in a big bed.  i probably did go in to her faster than i would in a crib, because at first i was a touch worried that she'd try getting out of bed.  i guess it was all good intentions, but really, it took her like three days of me coming in to her (where i wouldn't have before) before she started to fly off the handle.  some days, it happened at naptime and bedtime....sometimes middle of the night.  it was random enough at first to throw me for a loop.

anyways, we have solved that problem now.  it really did take me doing just about everything---i asked all the questions OT?, A times not long enough, too short----geez, i went nutso!  then my harsh reality was that my toddler had learned how to pull mommy's strings---i was her puppet!!

it wasn't fun to fix.  it took a few days of really hard work and very repetitive work to get it solved.  actually, in as many days as it took her to catch on, it took her that long to get off the crap she was up to.  we had a super yucky afternoon nap, followed by screaming at bedtime for an hour, then one completely blown off nap.  my husband could not believe her level of intensity---her screaming was very on purpose and very tantrummy---she wanted mom in that room! 

fingers crossed, it stopped for us right there.  it took us a few days, but she once again started to wake in the night on her own and settle on her own.  we really had NEVER had problems with this......
she will now lay in bed and wait for mom or dad to come.  At first, it was short amounts (i truly believe she lost trust in us somehow) and now she will wake in the night, sometimes for 1hr-2hrs (odd, but she does) and stay in bed the whole time and go back to sleep.  I also try to give her way more credit than i was.....on a few occasions, i have heard her wake/move around every hour and resettle.  I think at their age, this age, they really come into their own with sleep.

I follow Stacy's advice when we have an early wakeup.  I know that Avery will probably need to go down sooner and may need to nap longer, but i can't control those things necessarily.
If Avery wakes at 630am (730am is our usual), i try not to overanalyze it.  I leave her in bed for as long as she is happy, or 730am.  She woke 1hr early, split that time in half, put her down to nap about 1/2hr earlier than normal.  Since she woke early, i 'might' even let her sleep till 2.25hrs if she is lucky/or if i am lucky and she is still sleeping.  But bedtime generally stays at 730pm....we do put down earlier if she just seems to need to go.

I do know one thing that has helped me loads----i USED to think that if Avery napped only 1.25hrs, she might need to go to bed at the 5hr mark.  Overtime i realized, that her nap length seems to not matter about bedtime so much like it used to.....so a 1.75hr nap vs a 1hr nap don't leave her spiralling out of control.  And she seems to still fall asleep at the same time no matter what.  BUT she never wakes at the same time everyday and she still has nw'ings for no reason at all.  I've come to learn that she is doing what she needs to.  AND really, we all have our unexplainable grouchy days!

I hope this helps deb.  I think Noah is doing all he can.  Every time you write out his routine, i can't see any faults really by him or you.  I think it's time to trust him a little more than you are....

relax!  You will have another baby soon.  You won't have time for all this.

hth
Sami