Support and Chat thread for moms of early waking toddlers

[owens3116]

Hi all gonna try the reduced morning nap tommorow now and new routine cos mum had her today and it went a bit to pot however shes only had 2 hrs nap today and went to bed at 6.45 started wi/wo tonight though had to go back in ten times b4 she settled heres hoping for 6am in morning pls lord not 5am ! x

[samijoe]

deb~ goodness woman, throw away your monitor!  you DEFINITELY know what Noah does for sleep, we can't say you don't have the details!  take a rest now.  you have another baby due in a few months.  for sure when the baby arrives, you will want to monitor him/her--so since Noah seems to just do what he wants in terms of sleep (much to your chagrin), give yourself a break and turn the monitor off.  ahhh!

oops, wanted to respond to something else here too...by mikeenan perhaps....ah, i forget.  only in quick reply, so i'll have to come back later.


sami

[debo620]

LOL Sami, I wish I had a monitor to turn off!  I actually have never had one since we have always lived in a bungalow! but can turn off my Type A personality and overanalyzing brain instead?!?

[samijoe]

nope u can't.

ah shucks


sami

[katemom]

Hello,

2 questions for you all:

1) Which is more likely to cause early waking: long stretches of A time the day before, or a nap that is too late in the day?

2) Is it better to be flexible, bouncing back and forth between 1 or 2 nap days for a 14 month old, or just stick with something to try to develop some consistency?

My lo started transitioning to one nap at 11+ months.  She does well on it most of the time, but sometimes wakes up really early and then makes it hard to do one nap that day, so I offer 2.  However, I go back and forth so much that I don't know what the true cause of her early wakings is now that they have become more consistent.  She used to wake pretty regularly between 6:40-7:00, but lately it's more like 6:00-6:15.  It's not a huge difference, but since this girl used to be a 5ish type of girl, I don't want to go there again.  Also, she used to wake happy most of the time, and lately she cries about half of the time and is content and quiet the others.  I just feel like things are not quite right, and would love any input you may have on how to proceed...

Here is an example schedule of 1 nap days:

6:45am awake
11:45am nap
1:15pm- 2:00 awake (her naps are most often 1:30 for a few days, then a 2 hr+ for one day, repeat)
7:30 asleep for the night (sometimes 7:00 if need be)

Here is an example schedule of 2 nap days:

6:00am awake
10:00am nap #1
11:30 awake
3:45 nap #2
4:30 awake
7:30 asleep for the night

She is happy all day long, not irritable or grumpy or anything.

I've tried doing shush/pat in the mornings when she wakes early, and she is receptive to it, but doesn't always go to sleep.  I try to get her to stay in her crib until 7am, if possible, or I try to keep things mellow at least until 7.

I'm 5 months pregnant, and doing shush/pat over the edge of the crib is only going to get more uncomfortable, so I'm trying to resolve this before I get absolutely giant!

sorry for the long post, just wanted to give you any relevant information!

thank you!

katemom

[debo620]

I'll spare you guys the details, hah, but we are doing ok....

Katemom, I think most likely the EW can be caused by too long of a morning nap. also I honeslty wouldn't expect much more then 11hrs at night and 2hrs during the day.

so perhaps:
aim for a 6:30 am wake, so leave her in there til that time
nap 10-for 45min MAX
nap 1:30/2-3/3:30-----max 1.5hrs
bed and asleep by 7:30

[katemom]

thank you for the reply - but I failed to mention (in my already very long post), that I have tried the short a.m. nap and long p.m. nap thing, but she doesn't sleep past 45 minutes ever on the p.m. nap despite my trying out many different awake times after the shortened a.m. nap.  I sort of came to the conclusion that it was either a long a.m. nap/short p.m. nap or just one nap with her I'm afraid.  However, given the fact that a lot of the time we do a one nap day, she only gets 1:30 anyway, so if you think 45 min. in the a.m. and 45 min. in the p.m. is better than one nap per day, I could give that a try for awhile?  What do you think?

katemom

[katemom]

okay, please help!!

The last 2 days I've tried just sticking to a plan regardless of what time my lo wakes in the morning, and going for one nap.  I guess it's too hard on her because she has woken up crying at the 45 minute mark both days during her nap.  She does go back to sleep after 5 minutes of crying on her own, and sleeps another 45 minutes, but I'm taking this disrupted type of napping to mean this isn't working for her.  I am really hoping someone can offer any suggestions!!!

thanks, katemom

[samijoe]

katemom

(bf'ing and typing with one hand)

some lo's need to switch back and forth b/w one nap or two.
some might do 2 days of 1 nap, then need a day of two naps to catch up.

stick with it---this transition does NOT happen over night!!


hth
sami

[debo620]

Katemom, sorry my original reply must have been lost. I was thinking that maybe 45min in the am is just slightly too long to get a good pm nap---thats how it was for us.
so thats when I went to 30min am nap and cut the A time to the second nap drastically.

so
maybe nap 10-10:30
nap have her in crib for 1pm so she can play---hopefully asleep by 1:15/1:30--and then let her sleep 1.5hrs or so, up at 3pm
bed 7-asleep by 7:30

[katemom]

Sami, believe me I know this transition takes time - we've already been doing it for 3 months.  But I guess I was just wondering theoretically which issue may be more likely to be causing the ew: late p.m. nap or long A times.  (In case I have to pick the lesser of two evils).  If you have an opinion on that, I would love to hear your thoughts...

Deb, thanks for your reply.  I'm so scared to try what you suggested because as I said, it's never worked for us to get a decent length p.m. nap after a shortened a.m. nap - but I will give it a try today.  Maybe she'll surprise me!

thanks, katemom

[samijoe]

Sami, believe me I know this transition takes time - we've already been doing it for 3 months.  But I guess I was just wondering theoretically which issue may be more likely to be causing the ew: late p.m. nap or long A times.  (In case I have to pick the lesser of two evils).  If you have an opinion on that, I would love to hear your thoughts...

Deb, thanks for your reply.  I'm so scared to try what you suggested because as I said, it's never worked for us to get a decent length p.m. nap after a shortened a.m. nap - but I will give it a try today.  Maybe she'll surprise me!

thanks, katemom

Hi Katemom

The EW really could be from either.  If the long A times are causing her to be OT, then that can cause EW.  If the late pm nap happens too late, and lo is still able to fall asleep at regular bedtime, you might also get an EW.  I know at one point, my dd was able to sleep till as late as 430pm, and still fall asleep at 730pm.

I guess it is better to ask yourself, "what do my lo's A times look like?"

Some lo's keep the same A time lengths during the day.  Others, gain time as the day progresses.

Also, if you shorten the regular morning nap, theoretically, the A time b/w 1st nap and 2nd nap should be shortened accordingly.  I believe the estimates stack up like this:

45minute nap--- most lo's could handle a regular full A time
30minute nap--- 3hrs
20minute nap--- 2hrs
15minute nap--- 1.5hrs

I know that you say you have tried to shorten the first nap, but have had no luck with a longer pm nap.  My guess, and it's only my opinion, is that you probably never correctly nailed the A time in between.  It really can be tricky.  Getting a nap length of only 45minutes could mean that you put her down to nap too soon, or she really might have woken closer to the 40minute mark---and could have been ot.

Lots to think about.
I know it's been a few days since you first posted....why don't you repost what you've been up to?


hth
sami

[katemom]

Thanks for theorizing with me...

Yes, I'm sure you're right that I never nailed the A time correctly on the short am nap/long pm nap.  I must say that I have tried a LOT of different things, but since it's been awhile, I'm willing to give it a go again.

Here are the last 3 days, the first 2 I was trying to stick with a one nap day even though I knew it was a bit beyond her normal A times to do (since she woke early all three of the last few days!).  Then today, I went with Deb's recommendation for 2 naps with a shortened am nap.  But note that all 3 days my lo woke from the main nap or longest nap after 40-45 minutes crying.  She falls back asleep after 5-10 minutes, but she really cries!

Tuesday:
6:15am awake and crying (did shush/pat and calmed down, didn't sleep, but stayed quiet in crib til 7am)
11:45am in crib
11:50am asleep
12:30pm awake and crying
12:45pm asleep
1:35pm awake
7:15 in crib
7:20 asleep

Wednesday:
6:30am awake and happy til 6:50
11:50am in crib
12:00pm asleep
12:45pm awake and crying
12:50pm asleep again
2:28pm awake and slightly whiny/groggy
7:35pm in crib
7:40pm asleep

Thursday:
6am woke (happy, and okay on own until 6:55)
10am in crib
10:15 asleep
10:45 woke her
1:15 in crib
1:30 asleep
2:20 awake screaming
2:30 asleep again
3:00 awake happy
*I plan to put to bed by 7:30

If this sheds any light on what else I could try, please let me know.  I'm concerned about this disrupted afternoon napping (waking and crying part way through - she's never done this before!)  But I'm grateful she goes back to sleep on her own!

thanks, katemom

[samijoe]

Katemom

Thanks for the info....i think i have some suggestions for you.

Ok, let's see....

Tuesday--you aimed for 5.5hrs on each side of the nap.  Here's what you got-- woke 40 minutes into the nap crying (that is OT), resettled and got an extra 50mins nap.

Wednesday--you aimed for only 5hrs on each side of the nap.  Same type of nap as Tuesday.

**waking and crying midway thru the nap is generally due to Otiredness.  When lo is ot, they don't sleep as restfully and the quality of the sleep they do get suffers.

So you shortened the day (good idea i think!) and today seems to look awesome so far-- don't think i can catch you in time, but i would aim for bedtime to be at 7pm, in the crib.  If you did go ahead and do bedtime of 730pm, you might get an EW again.  It is ok, don't beat yourself up.  It is possible you will have an EW anyway, as eventhough you did the two nap thing today, you might not see the results for a few days.  Please read: you could still have EW's for another 2 to 3 days before seeing the results of the two naps. 

Stick with what you did EXACTLY today...following cues of course!  I think how your lo slept definitely was the result of nailing the midday A time-- if you keep at it for a few days, you should see that early wake disappear (as ot does).  You should also see the mid-waking in nap (screaming and crying) subside and go away (as ot does).

Sorry if that was super longwinded.....i just got going there!  lol!

hope any of this helps.
sami

[debo620]

Katemom, I also think today looks really good. It is great that she went back to sleep this afternoon--even if she woke midday. I agree with everything that Sami said.
I think stick with 30min in the am. It may help to move that 30min nap slightly earlier even 10am--so that she is not as tired for it, then plan for in bed for 1pm.
my son son used to play for 30min and he would then sleep 1:30-3---
I am not sure if she will play for 30min or not- but then she gets 2hrs of down time in the afternoon--which may also be beneficial.

also agree with bed 13hfrs after waking---so that 7pm with a 6am wake---gives her time to winddown and fall asleep without risking OT.