Bed time problems still ongoing at 4 months.

[Fiona (Leah & Kians Mom)]

I really need some help here. 4 months later we still have bedtime problems. Intially we put it down to colic as ds had it until about 11 weeks and was up until 10 or 11 every night but now I just dont know if it's a habit and I can't seem to rectify it.
Ds goes to sleep during the day with no problem, 5 mins before nap time is brought upstairs put in sleeping bag ( now) and put in bed and I leave. Very occasionally if I have missed the mark by 10 mins I go in and ssh for a min and he sleeps or usually he cries for about 30 seconds and sleeps, this is for 3 naps. Bed time is a different story, he is swaddled and either has trouble going to sleep and we have to patt sshh or he goes to sleep but either way between 25 and 45 mins later he wakes, starts off being distressed and then escalates into a cry. It takes up to an hour of in and out and pat ssh to resettle him. He may often resettlen then start 15 mins later. I really have no idea any more what the problem is. His day time routine seems fine.

8.00 A and zantac
8.15 ish E
10.00 S ( 45-50 mins)
11.50 ish E 1 cube food bottle
13.00 S
15.15 A ( usually have to wake)
17 or 17.15 cat nap. If we are out about 20 mins in buggy if at home about 30 mins.
17.35 ish A and zantac
18.15/ 18.40 ish E
19.20 ish Bedtime stories on bed with dd
19.40 Bed

It doesnt seem to matter if he sleeps 20 mins or 35 mins for his catnap he still wakens and not consistently enough to do wake to sleep. In fact the evenings he has cat nappped 20 mins only seem to be the best.
He has reflux is on meds and has his mattress elevated.
During his growth spurt which lasted 12 days we had no probs with bed time.
I really need some of my evenings back, I dont have dinner before 9.30 then barely eat cos I am stressed at this stage. Dh and I have no time together. Our pm routine is not 100 % consistent as I have a 3 year old so bath is not part of the routine though we did try it and it didnt make any difference.
Between 1 and the other we spent 1.5 hours in and out of both rooms tonight, actually an hour and 45 mins, so I think we need some help please.

[Muriel - Elisa's mama]

hi! well my first reaction was: you swaddle him and he does not sleep while at nap he is only in a sleeping bag! did you try just stop swaddling him then to keep the same routine than at naps which seems to work? i know my LO never liked the swaddle and sleep the night without it and never had any problem so may be worth a try!

may be another one: sounds funny but it did help us so may be worth a try too.. talk to your LO when you put him/her to bed so you tell that it is now for the night but that you are next room, eating with daddy and that you are around in case of problem but would need time for your own now and that you will pick him/her up the next morning in any case... just a bit of wispering helps sometimes too!! the way you will talk is important I think make it as a "serious/explanative" talk somehow in your tone but also not a sad tone like "poor baby i leave you"!

third one and last one i can think of: you spoke about a growth spuur of 12 days: is that possible??? i thought they would only last couple of days or so, so may be during that 12 days you changed or add something thinking it was GS that worked, try to look in your log book backwards to see what you do different now, may be you find the clue!

well let us know how you do!

[Fiona (Leah & Kians Mom)]

Hi Muriel,
Thanks for your input. Have been trying to wean the swaddle hence day no night yes. Might try unswaddled tomorrow night. Yes dh and I have both " spoken" to him, doesnt work  and in a positive voice just like I do at nap time.
I also thought a 12 day growth spurt was not possbile but apparently it is and I also spoke to his paed on Thurs about it and he also said yes it's possible. I keep a detailed log and believe me I have studied it a million times to see where the differnce is, so far I cannot come up with anything constructive.
Sorry I dont mean to sound dismissive of your ideas, believe me all are welcome but I just cant figure it out. I wake him at 10.30 for a feed, just done, he ate, was changed, swaddled and back in bed, no probs, so what gives 4 times out of 24 hours ok and night time no???

[Muriel - Elisa's mama]

hi fiona, oh girl! I am so sorry i cannot help you more and come up with new ideas! it seems to me you are alreday trying all you can think of and may be then it is just a period of time and it woudl go by its own! yes i know not very usefull remark but may be it is so??? i go t also some strange stuff with my LO sometimes and they go as they came without us really knowing the why! may be it is just a development phase?? normally 4 months a lot of things changed and I can remember for us the transition from 3 hours easy to 4 hours easy solved a lot of things then like by magic, so i really don't know what to say!

did you ask in your birth club the ladies to look at your post, may be some have the same and can help better than I can?

well a lot og HUGS and good vibes, at least you know i am thinking of you here~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

[rinajack]

Fiona - I think maybe that the A time after such a short catnap isn't quite right.  I am guessing OT.   Am thinking that a 20 min catnap is not enough to get him to last another 2 hr A time. Even if the catnap starts at 5:15 and lasts 30 mins, that is still 2+ hr A time to bedtime best case, probably longer if it starts at 5 and is only 20mins.

Have you tried putting him to bed before DD?

[Fiona (Leah & Kians Mom)]

Yes Rina did that too, it's even worse, if he gets less than 2 hours activity he wont settle at all. Will just have to keep working on it.........he stops as soon as I go in the room so think I may have to do a modified version of walk in walk out kind of thing. He is also fighting his catnap. He woke a bit early from his nap today so put him down at 5, he cried a few mins and is now in his bed chatting and laughing away to himself 10 mins later........fingers crossed 

[rinajack]

We have trouble with catnap here too, I usually have to put Hugh in the sling to get him to nap at that time.

I wonder if, given he needs at least 2 hrs A time, he might need longer?

[rinajack]

Just wanted to add - he is doing an 8am wakeup, maybe you need to push bedtime to 8pm?

[Fiona (Leah & Kians Mom)]

Just saw this , Yeah I was thinking the same thing Rina but that would give almost 2.5 hours wake time, but as you said as he is already doing 2 maybe he needs more here... last night he fell asleep no prob at about 7.50 pm and was screaming by 8.15 so that's 25 mins.........
will be happy when the catnap goes, dd cut hers out at about 5.5 months and was already down to 15 mins

[rinajack]

What if you don't wake from the PM nap - don't do the catnap, and put to bed earlier??? My DD never did the catnap at all....

[Fiona (Leah & Kians Mom)]

Then I would probably lose a bottle, the 3.30 one and if I feed any later he wouldnt eat at 7, he is only on 5 a day.
This is maddening  it will work out, it will work out, it will work out 

[rinajack]

LOL.  Just try the later bedtime then!

[Fiona (Leah & Kians Mom)]

Thanks for the suggestions though. And dont you ever sleep? Everytime I am on here you are here and it's 3.15pm for us.

[rinajack]

It is nearly 9:30, just waiting to DF.  Feel like I never sleep LOL - DD gets me up super early lately, she isn't gonna sleep well til she is at least 5, of that we are almost certain.

Happy to try and help, if I think of anything else, will let you know.  Oh, your lo is not draining bottles is he?

[Fiona (Leah & Kians Mom)]

No, but he is doing about 180 per except the late one which is good. He is on a tiny spoon feed after his brek and lunch bottle too. ( reflux weaning )